Official Barefaced Bass Cab Club

[bhubb3rd]

Hi Guys! Some questions for the group -

I Currently, run (2) Berg CN112's with either a Puma 900 or a Mesa 800D. Sometimes when I play outdoors, I feel the need for another CN112 or maybe switching to (3) HDN112's. This would force me to 2.67 Ohms, which the Puma can't handle. Been giving some thought to buying a Berg B Amp and a HDN212, they are running a special now and I can save $200. The B Amp will go down to 2 ohms, so it would work with anything.

I, like many I am sure, am curious about these cabinets, they get great reviews, but I am not sure if they will work for me. According to web site info, a BB2 puts out 127 db, louder than the Berg HDN 212 at 104 DB. The Big Twin shows 133 db, which is loud as hell.

Really wondering if (1) BB2 would be louder than my (2) CN112's or if (1) Big Twin would be louder than (3) HDN112's. And, buying these cabinets really eliminates the need to buy the Berg B Amp, since the primary appeal is custom voicing for Berg speakers and the 2 ohm load.

I am a little hesitant buying something I can't return.

Any advise for me?

 

[Woolber]

I might be out of touch but when I bought my BB2 new I had 30 days to try it and return it if I didn't like it. Maybe that's changed.

By the way, I love my BB2.

 

[chris_b]

I sold a Berg CN212 and replaced it with 2 BF Super Compacts.

I used to run a 312 set up for loud gigs and have 2 amps that are good to 2 ohms. I don't need those any more because the 2 8 ohm SC's are as loud as my 312.

The best financial case is to just get another CN112 (the Mesa D800 will run 3 cabs), but if you go down the Barefaced route I'd think about 2 BB2's or 2 SC's.

 

[Xad]

Hi Guys! Some questions for the group -

I Currently, run (2) Berg CN112's with either a Puma 900 or a Mesa 800D. Sometimes when I play outdoors, I feel the need for another CN112 or maybe switching to (3) HDN112's. This would force me to 2.67 Ohms, which the Puma can't handle. Been giving some thought to buying a Berg B Amp and a HDN212, they are running a special now and I can save $200. The B Amp will go down to 2 ohms, so it would work with anything.

I, like many I am sure, am curious about these cabinets, they get great reviews, but I am not sure if they will work for me. According to web site info, a BB2 puts out 127 db, louder than the Berg HDN 212 at 104 DB. The Big Twin shows 133 db, which is loud as hell.

Really wondering if (1) BB2 would be louder than my (2) CN112's or if (1) Big Twin would be louder than (3) HDN112's. And, buying these cabinets really eliminates the need to buy the Berg B Amp, since the primary appeal is custom voicing for Berg speakers and the 2 ohm load.

I am a little hesitant buying something I can't return.

Any advise for me?

I can't provide direct advice, but as a starting point, this post (and the ones that follow it) from earlier in the thread might be helpful: Official Barefaced Bass Cab Club - Post 2030

 

[Tim1]

I might be out of touch but when I bought my BB2 new I had 30 days to try it and return it if I didn't like it. Maybe that's changed.

By the way, I love my BB2.

I think this still applies, but I assume you would have to pay at least the cost of return shipping and if you do not live in the UK this can be substantial. My Four 10 was shipped to me in New Zealand so returning it would not have made financial sense. That said, I am a very happy customer and returning it never once crossed my mind. Alex is a good communicator and keen to provide the right advice when you purchase. I got the strong impression that customer satisfaction and product reputation is more important to him than the almighty dollar. The fact that you are dealing directly with the manufacturer and cutting out the middle man is also a big plus - my Barefaced Four 10 cost me considerably less to import than it would have cost for the Bergantino 410 that I was also considering.

 

[lomo]

Berg cabs are amazing, and so are BF boxes. The latter are louder per pound and just as toneful IME. I simultaneously had a Berg CN210 and Barefaced SC-the SC was at least as loud, smaller and about 25% lighter. I have no doubt that both the BB2 and BT are louder than the pair of HD or CN 12s.

Hi Guys! Some questions for the group -

I Currently, run (2) Berg CN112's with either a Puma 900 or a Mesa 800D. Sometimes when I play outdoors, I feel the need for another CN112 or maybe switching to (3) HDN112's. This would force me to 2.67 Ohms, which the Puma can't handle. Been giving some thought to buying a Berg B Amp and a HDN212, they are running a special now and I can save $200. The B Amp will go down to 2 ohms, so it would work with anything.

I, like many I am sure, am curious about these cabinets, they get great reviews, but I am not sure if they will work for me. According to web site info, a BB2 puts out 127 db, louder than the Berg HDN 212 at 104 DB. The Big Twin shows 133 db, which is loud as hell.

Really wondering if (1) BB2 would be louder than my (2) CN112's or if (1) Big Twin would be louder than (3) HDN112's. And, buying these cabinets really eliminates the need to buy the Berg B Amp, since the primary appeal is custom voicing for Berg speakers and the 2 ohm load.

I am a little hesitant buying something I can't return.

Any advise for me?

 

[speyer]

Berg cabs are amazing, and so are BF boxes. The latter are louder per pound and just as toneful IME. I simultaneously had a Berg CN210 and Barefaced SC-the SC was at least as loud, smaller and about 25% lighter. I have no doubt that both the BB2 and BT are louder than the pair of HD or CN 12s.

That's a hell of an endorsement Lomo! Similarly, I have always loved my Bergs... but I have not heard a Barefaced cab yet. Just sold my CN210 to pickup a retro TWO10 and now i need a cab for DB. That cab will double as what I like to call a "reference rig" for any or all instruments kinda like a PA monitor like many users suggest. Neutral and uncoloured, light and loud etc.

I'm on the fence with either the BB2 or the SC. for the extra $200 I think it would be worth getting the BB2... simply because size and weight are of little consideration here. I'm wanting the best sounding single cab solution for amplifying a variety of instruments (DB, EB, Synth, Acoustic, vocals etc). Also, I thought I read on the website that you could change the "tone" of the cab via the "complex crossover network" by a control on the back? anyone care to expand on this? Color me interested

 

[speyer]

I sold a Berg CN212 and replaced it with 2 BF Super Compacts.

I used to run a 312 set up for loud gigs and have 2 amps that are good to 2 ohms. I don't need those any more because the 2 8 ohm SC's are as loud as my 312.

The best financial case is to just get another CN112 (the Mesa D800 will run 3 cabs), but if you go down the Barefaced route I'd think about 2 BB2's or 2 SC's.

Im very familiar with the CN212 so this is very reassuring information. The CN212 was always 'enough' volume for me on most gig run with only a walkabout. So one BB2 or even SC would work great with the D800 I have showing up tomorrow. I will be pairing it with my retro TWO10 - and an other Barefaced cabs in my future.

 

[monsterthompson]

That's a hell of an endorsement Lomo! Similarly, I have always loved my Bergs... but I have not heard a Barefaced cab yet. Just sold my CN210 to pickup a retro TWO10 and now i need a cab for DB. That cab will double as what I like to call a "reference rig" for any or all instruments kinda like a PA monitor like many users suggest. Neutral and uncoloured, light and loud etc.

I'm on the fence with either the BB2 or the SC. for the extra $200 I think it would be worth getting the BB2... simply because size and weight are of little consideration here. I'm wanting the best sounding single cab solution for amplifying a variety of instruments (DB, EB, Synth, Acoustic, vocals etc). Also, I thought I read on the website that you could change the "tone" of the cab via the "complex crossover network" by a control on the back? anyone care to expand on this? Color me interested

I used mine for Synth. It's pretty nice get the BB2.

 

[lomo]

I'm on the fence with either the BB2 or the SC. for the extra $200 I think it would be worth getting the BB2... simply because size and weight are of little consideration here. I'm wanting the best sounding single cab solution for amplifying a variety of instruments (DB, EB, Synth, Acoustic, vocals etc). Also, I thought I read on the website that you could change the "tone" of the cab via the "complex crossover network" by a control on the back? anyone care to expand on this? Color me interested

For widely varied applications I'd advise going with the BB2, not so much because it'll give you "handle pretty much anything" volume capabilitiy with the D-800, but because the tweet will take it higher, clearer if/when desired.

 

[John D Harris]

Im very familiar with the CN212 so this is very reassuring information. The CN212 was always 'enough' volume for me on most gig run with only a walkabout. So one BB2 or even SC would work great with the D800 I have showing up tomorrow. I will be pairing it with my retro TWO10 - and an other Barefaced cabs in my future.

If you haven't already, I'd recommend you talk to Alex Claber before making any hard & fast decisions!
I'd think the SM would cover what you're talking about, but "Ask the man".

 

[Dp1363]

For widely varied applications I'd advise going with the BB2, not so much because it'll give you "handle pretty much anything" volume capabilitiy with the D-800, but because the tweet will take it higher, clearer if/when desired.

The BB2 with the D800 is awesome. I have two BB2's in a vertical stack. My guitarist keeps raving about my tone and the bottom I get out of this rig. Can't recommend this combination enough. The BB2 is a very light weight cab and can handle anything you can throw at it.

 

[OldogNewTrick]

OK, here's the recordings.

There are four MP3 (Yeah yeah I know) files, each a recording of one of the following speaker cabinets:
- Greenboy Dually w/3015's
- fEARful 12/6/1 cube (home-built, true 3-way crossover)
- BareFaced Four10
- Ampeg SVT212AV (tweeter off)

Each file has bass+drums (more bass) in the left channel, and bass soloed in the right channel, so you can hear it in different contexts by panning.

The amplifier used was a Kustom KXB500 (a pretty neutral amp), set with all eq at noon.

The mic used was a Studio Projects C1, a cheap but decent large diaphragm condenser. I put it basically at the center of one cone, about 2 inches from the grill.

I did my best to mic each speaker so it sounded the way it does in the room. I used the top left cone (full-range) in the Four10. The hard one was the fEARful. I tried to put the mic between the woofer and midrange driver, but on at least one take I got too close to the mid and thus recorded more snarl and less bottom than a true representation.

There are three snippets in each file:
Fingerstyle - Nordy VP5 w/Lull Duncan pickup, Cobalt rounds
Slap - Moollon Vintage J5, both vols and tone maxed, Cobalt rounds
Pick - Nordy VP5

Forgive my slapping, I haven't done it since the 80's...

No processing was done to the recordings, except to adjust the clip volumes to match as well as I could.

I hope you get something out of this. I certainly learned a bit about my cabs and my ears.
Let me know what you think... I'll reveal the identities, I dunno, Thursday afternoon? Ish?

smeet, thank you for your effort. Much appreciated.
I have reedited the tracks into fingerstyle 1234, slap 1234 and pick1234.
The differences between the cabs are much more apparent that way.
As to my favourite, well... since that would differ for my requirements (man cave) to active gigging players, is neither here nor there.

 

[OldogNewTrick]

as to my guess what's what:
1 - Ampeg SVT212AV
2 - Greenboy Dually w/3015's
3 - fEARful 12/6/1
4 - BareFaced Four10

Purely my expectation how those cabs would sound. Nothing to compare to, I have played neither.
Wonder how far off I'll be...

 

[Plutonium244]

That's a hell of an endorsement Lomo! Similarly, I have always loved my Bergs... but I have not heard a Barefaced cab yet. Just sold my CN210 to pickup a retro TWO10 and now i need a cab for DB. That cab will double as what I like to call a "reference rig" for any or all instruments kinda like a PA monitor like many users suggest. Neutral and uncoloured, light and loud etc.

I'm on the fence with either the BB2 or the SC. for the extra $200 I think it would be worth getting the BB2... simply because size and weight are of little consideration here. I'm wanting the best sounding single cab solution for amplifying a variety of instruments (DB, EB, Synth, Acoustic, vocals etc). Also, I thought I read on the website that you could change the "tone" of the cab via the "complex crossover network" by a control on the back? anyone care to expand on this? Color me interested

BB2.

The SC will not be as good as a BB2 for your stated preferences IMO, since the SC does not have the tweeter; the tweeter is very useful in getting that "reference monitor" clarity. Also, if you want, the BB2 can be an SC-- just dial the tweeter down to zero on the BB2 and it will redirect those frequencies down to the driver instead-- thus giving you the full spectrum through the 12" driver just like the SC. The SC, by contrast, cannot be a BB2. So really, having the BB2 is like having both cabs and selecting which cab you want with you that gig (based on tweeter setting you select).

I do think you'll like having two sounds to choose from, what with you having both a Two10 and (possibly) the BB2. if size matters, the Super Midget is pretty similar to BB2, has a tweet and the same 12" driver, and is smaller. It might have a little less bottom than a BB2 but from what everyone tells me it has plenty; I know my BB2 seems to have way more botom that needed so a little less wouldn't be a problem IMO.

 

[Tim1]

Does a Super Compact and a BB2 equal one Big Twin 2? If so, this would seem to provide heaps of options.

 

[monsterthompson]

Does a Super Compact and a BB2 equal one Big Twin 2? If so, this would seem to provide heaps of options.

No. The SC internal volume is not the same as the BB2.

 

[Plutonium244]

Does a Super Compact and a BB2 equal one Big Twin 2? If so, this would seem to provide heaps of options.

Hmmm, interesting question. Close, but not quite, I'd say. With a SC and a BB2, one 12" driver is getting full frequency range (SC) while the other 12" driver (BB2) is only getting frequencies up to the crossover point to the horn. With a Big Twin 2, I think neither 12" driver is getting full frequency range if the horn in engaged; the horn alone handles that high range and the two drivers handle everything below the crossover.

So, BB2 + SC has some overlap of the high frequencies, Big Twin 2 does not. What the audible impact is of that, I don't know, probably not a whole lot... but there must be some difference, however small.

Also, a Big Twin 2 is one larger box, which theoretically should mean more low extension than two smaller boxes. Again, I think this would be negligible because you won't be lacking in low end regardless with these drivers, but again, it is a difference.

Bottom line, I think that, while not "the same" it would be close enough to the same overall presentation that the benefit of modularity and variety might outweigh, to someone, any difference between the two set-ups (BB2+SC or BT2). Unless Alex says otherwise... in which case, what Alex says.

Shouldn't you be at home with your new girlfriend, Four10, instead of checking out these pretty girls at the pub? "Man, I know Allison is waiting for me at home, but Daphne and Angelina at the same time would be hot"

 

[smeet]

I liked em all about the same for fingerstyle, but I liked 2 and 4 best for pick and slap. Specifically 2 for slap 4 for pick, but I keep flip flopping.

At first blush, I greatly preferred Cab #2 in every way, then #1. The last two seemed more old school, which is just not my thing at all.

I mainly listened to the fingerstyle portions of the clips, and recording 3 is my favourite. My least favourite would be number 4. They all sound pretty good and usable, though.

OK, I'll just take a shot at it:
1) Four 10
2) 12/6/1
3) Dually 15 w/K-lites
4) SVT212AV

as to my guess what's what:
1 - Ampeg SVT212AV
2 - Greenboy Dually w/3015's
3 - fEARful 12/6/1
4 - BareFaced Four10

I'll just assume all's that's gonna guess done guessed.
So here's the harsh slap in the face from the fish of reality:
1) Dually
2) SVT 212AV
3) Four10
4) 12/6/1

So... There were preferences, but which is which wasn't obvious to everyone.
My recordings were of course not beautiful, but if you heard the speakers in person, you would recognize the character.
Surprisingly, people seemed to confuse the 12/6/1 with the Four10. To me, the Four10 sounds old-school and 12/6/1 is very clean and modern.
First I'll say that all four of these cabinets are really great, and if I weren't such a spoiled brat I'd be happy and GAS-free with any of them.
I learned a lot by comparing them, I'll try to impart my impressions, but to paraphrase that dude, it's a bit like farting about architecture.

Here's how I hear them:

• The Dually has very organic attack and a present upper mid. Not a lot of deep lows or glassy highs. VERY efficient 4 Ohm cab, very classic rock sounding.
• The Ampeg 212av has a beautiful but BIG low mid bump, not very much in the lows or high mids, and a bump in the highs. It ends up sounding like it has a big powerful bottom, but without producing much actual low frequency content. Neat trick. It's also quite efficient, although not as much as the Dually. But it produces this same basic sound no matter what you do with the eq. This is a really special cab, it seems to sound much better than it should.
• The Four10 is THICK THICK THICK sounding. Huge. Its low-mid bump is there, but not nearly as big as the Ampeg's, plus it has more high mids. Gigantic bottom, but still relatively "tight" and defined sounding. It responds well to eq, so you can make it sound brighter and more aggressive in the highs by cutting bass or boosting highs. Another non-intuitive sound-blending thing - it sounds so bottom heavy, but when playing along with a CD, it has a lot of "cut" and growl in the mix, instead of getting woofy and indistinct. It has some similarities to both the old-school Ampeg and the modern 12/6/1. With some bass cut my P5 with rounds and a pick sounds MEAN. I look forward to playing this with a band.
• The 12/6/1 is very very clean. Cluzzzeeeeeeen. It's by far the most polite sounding of the group, extending much lower and higher than anything else. The lows are very wide and organ-like, not what I would call "tight". The mids don't have the chewy fat sound that the other more traditional "bass" cabinets have. On the other hand, it really does reproduce what you put in, so it's the only one that can do a decent job reproducing (certainly for a bass cab) a recording of a classical piano concerto, or an R&B vocal group.

So, yeah. They all sound great. They can all get hella loud. The Dually is the most efficient by a fair amount. The Four10 is the easiest to move around.

 

[SickAura]

Thanks @smeet for doing this. Though I am mildly interested in all of these cabs - I wouldn't have hazard a guess as I have never played any of them (though I have an LDS 12/6 so I am somewhat familiar with the fEARful)

For what its worth, listening only to the finger picking riff (I generally don't slap or use a pick) and without reading the answers...I choose #2 and #3 as my favourites leaning slightly towards #3 - I felt both had the tone and weight that I am looking for especially up high.

#4 (fEARful) was a really close 3rd and was well rounded but I felt was lacking character - and #1 sounded thin (up high) and was a distant fourth