Official Tobias Club

[Angus]

Here's another unicorn to go with all the others that have shown up here lately. This one's currently for sale on ebay – a Killer B with standard electronics and Renegade pickup configuration. Looks to be Nashville era. I screenshotted a couple of pictures.

View attachment 7397538

View attachment 7397537

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
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If this was a 5 string I'd have purchased it already. What a great neck/pickup/electronic combo.

Agree with ahadl2500 that's Growlers sound best as fretlesses, but disagree about the sound- with stock electronics I struggled to ever get them to cut through a mix.

 

[WayneP]

I don't know anything about the Renegades. For starters, what's the deal with the pickups – one thin and one fat?

What would it be like with the Renegade electronics vs. the Killer B in the example above?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
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[scubaduba]

Based solely on the control layout in that pic it would seem maybe that unicorn has Killer B/Basic/Classic/Signature preamp with three band EQ and pickup pan and three way toggle for mid shift.

Renegade electronics are volume, pickup pan, and tone (3 knobs).

 

[Jugghaid]

My renegade was VOL/Blend/Tone Maybe it was VOL/VOL/tone. It has been 20 years. With a mid switch, kinda like the slap switch on the Grendel.

 

[Jugghaid]

EDIT, looked and the tone was a push pull slap switch and the switch was a series/parallel apparently. Like I said, 20 years since I owned it.

 

[WayneP]

Can someone comment on the drastically different sizes of the Renegade pickups?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
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Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

 

[Jugghaid]

Can someone comment on the drastically different sizes of the Renegade pickups?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

Basically an MM/J configuration? Or are you talking about the pickup width?

 

[WayneP]

Basically an MM/J configuration? Or are you talking about the pickup width?

As I said, "size" as in, why is one as thin as a lipstick tube and the other thick as a brick?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
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Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

 

[scubaduba]

Because the neck pickup is a J style pickup and the bridge pickup is a MM style pickup. That's how the Renegade's were configured.

 

[Jugghaid]

As I said, "size" as in, why is one as thin as a lipstick tube and the other thick as a brick?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
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Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

As s I said. It's basically an MM/J setup. Just like a Lakland and many others.

 

[WayneP]

As s I said. It's basically an MM/J setup. Just like a Lakland and many others.

View attachment 7399413

Okay, thanks. I guess the problem is, I have no idea what MM/J is.

So - what does "skinny/fat" offer that matching-size pickups don't? Why not put "fat" at the neck and "skinny" at the bridge?

Sorry to be obtuse, but I don't know anything about pickups.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

 

[ahbass2500]

Okay, thanks. I guess the problem is, I have no idea what MM/J is.

So - what does "skinny/fat" offer that matching-size pickups don't? Why not put "fat" at the neck and "skinny" at the bridge?

Sorry to be obtuse, but I don't know anything about pickups.

At a high level, the pickup configuration choice depends what tone/tone options the designer was after. MM/J has become a common configuration. You frequently see an MM/J setup where you can tap coils on the MM to get a J/J setup (adding some versatility).

The J/MM that you ask about is another option (Warrior uses it). Again choice between the two depends on what you are after. I expect the MM/J is easier to market due to popularity of MM only basses (making this the more common configuration of the two).

Going farther on this, MM/J can have significantly different sounds within that configuration. It depends on how the pickup is made and what (if any) preamp it is paired with. Adding another level, just because it is an MM shell does not mean it is a traditional MM style coil configuration in that shell. Pickup manufacturers offer a variety of pickups in a given shape. While I am not aware of any basses that come from the factory this way, you could have an MM/J appearance on a bass that is actually just J/J.

In the context of this thread, I would expect the MM/J setup to have more low end available than the Growler when set flat (purely due to pickup location/having a pickup closer to the neck; preamp can make up for some of that missing low end hence the when set flat caveat). I have played both, but it has been so long since I have played a Tobias Renegade that I do not recall the sound profile.

Hopefully that is enough high level detail for this thread. You can read into it more elsewhere and spend years doing it if you really want to.

 

[Jugghaid]

This ^^^^^^

Think stingray in the bridge position and jazz bass in the neck.

 

[ahbass2500]

An update on my Journeyman bass...

Bad news... Stock preamp was failing. It had a background hiss that would oscillate and was not shielding/grounding/scratchy pot related. I have heard about this being an issue on some Bartolini preamps and apparently this one had it. As a result, I swapped out the stock preamp. I hated doing it on a prototype bass, but I needed to correct the background hiss.

Good news... After the preamp swap, my noise issues are gone. The four band Flexcore preamp I installed is absolutely excellent (Volume Blend Tone Bass/Treble Lo-Mid/Hi-Mid Lo-Mid Frequency Switch). I did not like making the change, but I am extremely happy with the end result.

 

[WayneP]

An update on my Journeyman bass...

Bad news... Stock preamp was failing. It had a background hiss that would oscillate and was not shielding/grounding/scratchy pot related. I have heard about this being an issue on some Bartolini preamps and apparently this one had it. As a result, I swapped out the stock preamp. I hated doing it on a prototype bass, but I needed to correct the background hiss.

Good news... After the preamp swap, my noise issues are gone. The four band Flexcore preamp I installed is absolutely excellent (Volume Blend Tone Bass/Treble Lo-Mid/Hi-Mid Lo-Mid Frequency Switch). I did not like making the change, but I am extremely happy with the end result.

View attachment 7399896

Glad you got it sorted out.

I had a similar problem with my unicorn 1990s Killer B fretless with EMG electronics. Turned out all the soldered connections were failing, wires breaking loose from circuit boards, and the like. I ended up having to replace the preamp. The new version uses push-on connections, so that won't be a future problem.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

 

[saulfavela]

Here's another unicorn to go with all the others that have shown up here lately. This one's currently for sale on ebay – a Killer B with standard electronics and Renegade pickup configuration. Looks to be Nashville era. I screenshotted a couple of pictures.

View attachment 7397538

View attachment 7397537

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

The pick ups look like a Tobias Renegade.

 

[WayneP]

The pick ups look like a Tobias Renegade.

Wow, another unicorn Killer B! Plus, I've never seen a Tobias with a fingerboard like that. Also looks like a 19mm neck.

Is it yours? Do you know anything about it?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

 

[scubaduba]

If anybody has $12K laying around here's an interesting piece on Reverb (no affiliation). https://reverb.com/item/94134020-to...ller-b-5-string-bass-guitar-pre-gibson-a-mint
Supposedly a prototype Killer B.

 

[WayneP]

I caught that one on ebay today – the Unicorns keep coming! Price seems umm, optimistic - probably worth significantly less than half that amount.

Anyone heard of jelutong wood? 8.8 oz - I like that, for sure! My Gibson zebrawood Killer is a bit over 10 lbs.

@scubaduba – it appears not to have the arm contour. Maybe the new Indonesian models lacking the contour are a throwback of the originals?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Official Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Official Heartfield Club #36
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Official Pre-Gibson Tobias Owners Club
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Make Your Own Cables: A How-To Guide

 

[scubaduba]

Yes pricing is "optimistic". That's a good way to put it for sure. Jelutong doesn't seem to be used all that often but it isn't exactly hard to get a hold of.

Cool bass though.