Official Zon Club Part 5

[J.Wolf]

The original TJ was the Sonus with the extended cutaway and rounded pickup covers, with the pups nudged slightly towards the neck IIRC.

The TJ signature bass was the headless short scale.

 

[kesslari]

Originally the TJ was 34" and headed. They created a headless 32" TJ a few years later.

 

[kumimajava]

Originally the TJ was 34" and headed. They created a headless 32" TJ a few years later.

Every day is a school-day Thanks for the clarification!

 

[winegamd]

I hate when they say "soapbar". There could be anything inside there.

I agree. Or they say "dual coil" when for a lot of manufacturers/users that could mean a traditional humbucker, stacked humbucker, sidewinder, an in-line split coil, offset split coil, P pickup, or reverse P-pickup. I am guessing since they are Barts, dual coil means traditional humbucker with side by side coils, but who knows?

 

[kumimajava]

Just to follow up my last post & confirm what @kesslari said:

First/early video of TJ with his custom (headed!) bass way backl (2008 or so?):



... and a few years later with the headless (2013):

 

[Angus]

Just to follow up my last post & confirm what @kesslari said:
First/early video of TJ with his custom (headed!) bass way backl (2008 or so?):

2006-ish. My walnut/ebony/bubinga TJ6 was #2 and I ordered in early/mid 2006 picked it up in December 2006. Still amazing.

 

[winegamd]

Angus, what do you think of the pickups? Are they a side by side dual coil or something else? I thought since they share the shape, they may be quadcoils like the OG Tobias.

 

[kumimajava]

Angus, what do you think of the pickups? Are they a side by side dual coil or something else? I thought since they share the shape, they may be quadcoils like the OG Tobias.

AFAIK, the TJ 'soapbars' are side-by-side coils, wired in series. I checked with Bartolini that these could be un-wired from series & re-wired for series/north/south/parallel switching.

To make the story more interesting, the pickup I showed them, though wired as side-by-side in series and had the markings confirming that, the pins on it look like a quad-coil. But I'm not sure whether this is the 'stock' TJ pickup, or a custom one.

TL-DR - it seems like Bartolini winds a variety of 'soapbars' for Zon, and it's not clear what a 'stock/standard' soapbar is. Until you see a photo of the underside of the paritcular pickup (in a bass you're buying), it could be anything from P-only / reverse-P only, side-by-side double-coil, quad, etc. They've all been done in the same 'housing'.

The pickups do still (usually, but not always) follow the same 'naming conventions' as Bartolini's other pickups, so if you can see the model name/number (underside of the pickup), you can cross-reference that with the model numbers on the Bartolini page.

 

[kesslari]

I know(or at least believe) that the TJ pickups are different than the Custom pickups (although they look the same).
That is, when I spec'd my bass, I told Joe that I wanted the Custom pickups, not the TJ, but in a radiused housing. (And in the "Special" position. Picky, picky, picky...) And that's what I got.​

 

[winegamd]

AFAIK, the TJ 'soapbars' are side-by-side coils, wired in series. I checked with Bartolini that these could be un-wired from series & re-wired for series/north/south/parallel switching.

To make the story more interesting, the pickup I showed them, though wired as side-by-side in series and had the markings confirming that, the pins on it look like a quad-coil. But I'm not sure whether this is the 'stock' TJ pickup, or a custom one.

TL-DR - it seems like Bartolini winds a variety of 'soapbars' for Zon, and it's not clear what a 'stock/standard' soapbar is. Until you see a photo of the underside of the paritcular pickup (in a bass you're buying), it could be anything from P-only / reverse-P only, side-by-side double-coil, quad, etc. They've all been done in the same 'housing'.

The pickups do still (usually, but not always) follow the same 'naming conventions' as Bartolini's other pickups, so if you can see the model name/number (underside of the pickup), you can cross-reference that with the model numbers on the Bartolini page.

This is the most helpful post I have received on Talkbass in a Decade. THANK YOU!

I can't tell you how many times I have tried contacting Zon with vague answers ( or no answers) and Bart leaving me in the dark since Zon's pickups are proprietary.

This also confirms my suspicion that with Zon, Dual Coil just means there might be two of them in the shell.

I can wait to get home to pull a pickup.

 

[winegamd]

I figured I would post these. The rarely if ever before seen underside of a Zon Legacy pickup. I have inquired of Bartolini as to what it actually is, but it looks like a quad coil in series. Hopefully they can instruct me on how to change it to parallel.

 

[kumimajava]

View attachment 4560746View attachment 4560747

I figured I would post these. The rarely if ever before seen underside of a Zon Legacy pickup. I have inquired of Bartolini as to what it actually is, but it looks like a quad coil in series. Hopefully they can instruct me on how to change it to parallel.

I'm confdient Bartolini will get back to you with their explanation soon, but meanwhile let me have a go (and let's see if the two match

That's similar what I had under the pickup I checked with them. IIRC the original quad-coils used to have an XX designation at the end of the model number, but just like mine - yours looks to have the 'lugs' of a quad-coil, with a dual-coil label.

Looking at your top picutre, label the outermost 'lugs' as follows

A B

Z X

In your pic, B is grounded to the shell. Break this connection & B becomes your Green (on bartolini diagrams).

Cut the red wire that's currently connecting Z-X.

X becomes 'Red', and Z becomes 'white'.

Finally you have a wire that is black with an inner 'transparent' sheath, going to A, and the sheath is grounded it to the pickup body. A is your 'Black', and shield is... well, attach it anywhere to the copper plate.

This (if i got it right) gives you the standard Bartolini 4-color double-coil wiring. IIRC Red+Black to hot, Green+White to ground should put it in parallel? (double-check with the Bartolini charts, just to be sure).

But, as you noted: you also have another set of lugs on the pickup:

A B
a b
z x
Z X

With a-z bridged, and b-x likewise bridged. Breaking this bridging would allow you to turn this into a full quad-coil, which of course might lead to a new variety of wiring options.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes


<Second thought: if you're only wanting it in parallel and don't want the various coil switching options, your 'green' is already grounded to the shell, so just ground Z/White to the shell too & take the X/Red from lug-X across the understide of the pickup to lug-A. Not sure whether the red piece of wire that's there is long enough to bridge X-A, but it might be? This would give you perhaps the least-hassle way of going from series to parallel, and you'd need to do a lot of re/de-soldering >

 

[winegamd]

I'm confdient Bartolini will get back to you with their explanation soon, but meanwhile let me have a go (and let's see if the two match

That's similar what I had under the pickup I checked with them. IIRC the original quad-coils used to have an XX designation at the end of the model number, but just like mine - yours looks to have the 'lugs' of a quad-coil, with a dual-coil label.

Looking at your top picutre, label the outermost 'lugs' as follows

A B

Z X

In your pic, B is grounded to the shell. Break this connection & B becomes your Green (on bartolini diagrams).

Cut the red wire that's currently connecting Z-X.

X becomes 'Red', and Z becomes 'white'.

Finally you have a wire that is black with an inner 'transparent' sheath, going to A, and the sheath is grounded it to the pickup body. A is your 'Black', and shield is... well, attach it anywhere to the copper plate.

This (if i got it right) gives you the standard Bartolini 4-color double-coil wiring. IIRC Red+Black to hot, Green+White to ground should put it in parallel? (double-check with the Bartolini charts, just to be sure).

But, as you noted: you also have another set of lugs on the pickup:

A B
a b
z x
Z X

With a-z bridged, and b-x likewise bridged. Breaking this bridging would allow you to turn this into a full quad-coil, which of course might lead to a new variety of wiring options.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes


<Second thought: if you're only wanting it in parallel and don't want the various coil switching options, your 'green' is already grounded to the shell, so just ground Z/White to the shell too & take the X/Red from lug-X across the understide of the pickup to lug-A. Not sure whether the red piece of wire that's there is long enough to bridge X-A, but it might be? This would give you perhaps the least-hassle way of going from series to parallel, and you'd need to do a lot of re/de-soldering >

This sounds about like Bartolini's response. I find it interesting that they took a quad coil to make a dual coil, especially because it's not split-able into a split J configuration.

I'm curious how these will sound in a parallel configuration. They are not as dark as a usual series pickup. I have an adjustable buffer to make up for any gain loss, but I wonder what will happen to the mids. They are pretty even now. I just find myself wanting a bit more in the 700-1200hz range and always boosting the lows a bit. I'm hoping the typical parallel characteristics accomplish this. I also have a stacked passive tone pot to throw in before the buffer so each individual pickup will have a passive tone.

Its going to be a far cry from a Legacy when I'm done.

 

[kumimajava]

This sounds about like Bartolini's response. I find it interesting that they took a quad coil to make a dual coil, especially because it's not split-able into a split J configuration.
<snip>
Its going to be a far cry from a Legacy when I'm done.

I'm not sure what you mean about it not being spilttable into a split-J config? if you un-solder all the bridging connections on the pickup you posted, and end up with all the options that a quad-coil would give. To be fair - i've not seen (m)any Zon's with coil-splitting/re-configuring switches... I think some of the 1-pickup quad-coil basses might have been? I can't recall seeing a dual-pickup zon with coil split/etc options - but of course my sample size is small.

Curious to see what your Legacy sounds like after your mods

 

[winegamd]

Since the magnet polarities are the same on each side, I can split into a P/reverse-P, but not an inline split coil. Well, at least not if I want to stay humbucking.

 

[kumimajava]

Since the magnet polarities are the same on each side, I can split into a P/reverse-P, but not an inline split coil. Well, at least not if I want to stay humbucking.

Got it - thanks for clarifying.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I can't recall seeing a dual-pickup zon with coil split/etc options - but of course my sample size is small.

Both pickups on mine are splittable from dual to single coil -- but it's a "very custom" headless Sonus 519, and Joe suggested the pickup wiring (or maybe it was Martin, hard to tell ). Single coil mode is super quiet with both pickups on, but I can hear a bit of hum with just one split pickup on so I'm guessing they aren't quad coils.

Coil splitting is done via push-pull pots: the two closest to the strings. Volume increases quite a bit in dual coil mode so I suspect that means that the coils are series wired, but IANA tech.

I definitely like dual coil mode the best and rarely use single coil, but it's nice to have options -- which include one pickup single, the other dual.

 

[winegamd]

This is the only time I have ever seen a Zon with coil tap options. Definitely a custom.

 

[gwangi]

This is the only time I have ever seen a Zon with coil tap options. Definitely a custom.

No video!!!!

 

[Fuzzbass]

No video!!!!

Embedding is disabled so it won't play on TB, but I was able to view the video by clicking the link that says "Watch on YouTube" (it's down underneath "Video unavailable")