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Oh no! Rig problem, Bob Lee!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by L-1329, Jul 31, 2005.


  1. L-1329

    L-1329

    Aug 8, 2004
    My rig is down, and I am supposed to try out with a band thursday! I am getting very little volume even at max gains. Here is what I have- basses into Eden Navigator to QSC PLX 1602 (bridged) to Epifani T410. This rig has put out tons of sound but for some reason right now I can dime the amp and pre and still play in my apartment! I don't know what happened to the volume, and I am suspecting the poweramp. There was a bad electrical storm here last week which seems to have killed my computer speakers so this may have affected something in my rig as well. The output lights on the Eden say it's putting out a full signal, though they could be wrong, and I just have no sound. Help! I have tried several of my basses so it's not a bass problem. I really could use some suggestions...
     
  2. Check all your cables first. If you don't have spares, plug bass into power amp, see if you get output. Use guitar cable first, then try with the cable you use between pre/power.

    Verify any/all fuses are intact, breakers ok. Do you have power lights on power amp?

    Try other outputs on the navigator, left out, right out, TUNER OUT (maybe tuner mute switch malfunctioned) and the various effects sends and DI. Try set of headphones in the headphone output. Try plugging the navigator into something else, see if you get output. Another power amp, stereo, pa, whatever.

    Make sure if you're using L or R output from the navigator into your bridged amp that the balance control isn't panned to the other channel

    When you turn the power amp on, do you hear a thump at all? Do you hear hiss in the speakers? Make sure the speaker cables are ok.

    Do you run bridged out? Make sure the bridge switch is on. Try it in stereo, maybe one channel works the other doesn't. MAKE SURE YOU"RE PLUGGED INTO THE CORRECT POWERAMP INPUT FOR BRIDGED OUTPUT! One input is cut off, but there may be some leakage so you hear something with no appreciable volume.

    Some stuff to try. Good luck.

    Randy

    I'm not Bob Lee, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express before.
     
  3. L-1329

    L-1329

    Aug 8, 2004
    Thanks Randy

    I have tried both stereo outs on the pre, as well as bridged and mono on the amp with the same problem. One thing I did notice though, is that when I plugged the recordin DI out into the QSC there was a big difference in volume pre vs. post eq (set flat), with the pre eq being louder. Both were still not near full levels though. Also, the mute switch ramps up when dissengaged. Is this normal? I have never noticed that before but I never really gave it much thought. There is no hum, popping or anything unusual coming from the amp either. I am stumped...
     
  4. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    I don't know didly about Eden, but Is there a tube in that preamp?
     
  5. L-1329

    L-1329

    Aug 8, 2004
    There is, and that is an interesting thought. There also is a tube /ss blend control, so I would think that blended full ss that would not be an issue, but I am no engineer and have no idea on how that is all wired up.
     
  6. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    >>>Check all your cables first. If you don't have spares, plug bass into power amp, see if you get output. Use guitar cable first, then try with the cable you use between pre/power.

    did you try that? ^ thats probably the easiest way to see if the power amp is working. of course make sure the volume is not all the way up!
     
  7. L-1329

    L-1329

    Aug 8, 2004
    I just tried that, bass plugged directly into the poweramp. The tone was there, and the volume with the amp set to max was about the same as the navigator. With the low voltage level of the bass getting the same volume levels as the preamp, it seems like it's safe to assume that the navigator is not boosting the signal anything over the bass itself. Suppose my signal is getting stopped up somehow in the pre?
     
  8. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    I hate troubleshoting stuff online, especially gear that I am unfamiliar with, but at the least I am bumping your thread for ya. Are you using just one bass? If you are, is it active & the battery is low?
     
  9. L-1329

    L-1329

    Aug 8, 2004
    Several basses, all same result. Still have to move this thing out to another room to try a different wall outlet. That may be my last option for an easy solution...
     
  10. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    Did you try different cables? did you turn of the suck switch? ok I am out of guesses so this is my last bump. hope you figure it out soon!
     
  11. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    So did you try replacing the tube?
     
  12. Check the speaker cable too.... Setting the DI to post eq gives you pretty much the same as the normal outputs I'd think. But it should be louder post eq than pre, odd that its the opposite. If the EQ section is quieter, maybe its the EQ section that's messed up, making the pre output very low.

    There is a tube but no tube/ss blend I'm aware of, i've got the Nav. There's a tube "overdrive" knob that is supposed to give you some growl.

    Slip another tube in there just to make sure that's not it.

    Do you have access to another preamp to plug into the qsc? Or another power amp to plug the Nav into? Stereo? Mixer?

    How about something wrong with the cab? Got somethign else to drive it, make sure there isn't a loose wire/connection inside the cab?

    Randy
     
  13. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    ...as said, try all yer cables and then yer pre, I don't think it's the pwr amp...especially after a storm ???...

    ~S~
     
  14. L-1329

    L-1329

    Aug 8, 2004
    Good suggestions, thanks!

    Ok, I have tried three different speaker cables. One for bridged, and two regular two wire for stereo, and all give the same resluts. Also I have used three different cabs and each is not as loud as it should be.

    I don't have another preamp tube so that test may have to wait. And I can fing no eq bypass on the navigator other than the one for the DI, and it is strange that the flat eq is much quiter than bypassed eq. There is an enhance bypass, but that has no effect.

    I do want to try another preamp but don't have one here, but steveksux idea of a mixer I wouldn't have thought of. I can use my DAW and see what happens. Thanks Randy. If this shows it's the preamp I think I may send it in for a checkup, and to make sure there's no more queertrons floating around in there.

    I'll try these idea's and see what happens. Thanks everyone for the help!
     
  15. L-1329

    L-1329

    Aug 8, 2004
    Well...

    Since I don't have another preamp, I tried a few things. First I ran my BDDI straight to the PLX. Was definitely louder, not full loud but that makes sense with just a BDDI. I have two heads also, though neither has a preamp section output. I ran the DI from my Carvin R1000 straight to the PLX and damn if that wasn't freakin' loud! I don't know what is happening to my navigator but it would seem that it just isn't putting out enough juice. I am going to call Eden tomorrow and try to get some insight on this. Hopefully they will have a quick, and cheap, solution! Thanks again for the ideas and assistance...:cool:
     
  16. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    ...sounds like the pre to me. I own the same one & never had 1 problem ???, regardless of weather, etc...Call Eden & in the meantime, try a different pre(after you've switched ALL your cables)...

    ~S~
     
  17. Funny, I just sent my Nav in a month ago. Eden took good care of me, its working great, good price too. Mine was intermittent volume/tone changes usually accompanied by rather loud POP.... Think it took about 4-6 weeks, but with mine being intermittent prob, may have been harder to diagnose.

    Why don't you try replacing the tube before you end it in? Just in case....

    Randy
     
  18. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Hi L-1329,

    From the descriptions of your tests, it seems that for whatever reason, the preamp isn't putting out as strong a signal as it's supposed to.

    I agree with Randy that you should try replacing the tube to see if that solves the problem before you go through the bigger undertaking of sending it in for repair.
     
  19. L-1329

    L-1329

    Aug 8, 2004
    Thanks for the reply, and it seems you are right. I actually talked to David Eden on the phone this morning, and he is mostly sure the navigator has a problem he has seen before. Seems that bad phantom power or static buildups can short several muting fet's, which only mute the outputs during powerup while the tube is warming up. I would have been extremely suprised if the PLX had a fault, it has been absolutely bulletproof for the last two years I have had it in the rack. I have to say that I am most pleased I chose both the QSC and the Eden, mainly because the customer service is second to none, and being able to communicate with you guys is so valuable when problems crop up. I have learned tons from reading your posts here, and appreciate the insights.
     
  20. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    You mean David Nordschow at Eden . . . but we've all been down that road before. ;)