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Ok bass peeps here's a question for ya !!

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by slamsinger, Mar 12, 2016.


  1. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    My first ever post on some help... I play in a 5 piece Motown rnb funk band and we use K12's for tops and a double 18 sub run through and mackie dl32r and jbl driverack... Really nice system huge fat bottom end !.... Here's my problem I play really well made basses and I went out to hear my bass last night (MTD USA norm Stockton Saratoga) I also have a carvin sb5001 and a groove shoppe gs5 and I cannot get any bass I play to sound good out front .. No mid punch or note articulation .. It sounds amazing through my rig (gk mb800 fusion with 2 GK neo 112's with fatal drivers )... It's sooooo frustrating to hear my basses through my rig and then go out front and it's just weak and stale... I usually EQ a bump in 400hz and 80hz on my channel and use a smoothie compressor pedal which is killer ... With double 18 sub and a pair of k12's I'd figure I could get a killer sound out from but something is missing big time and as you know the bass is a huge part of what we play... Kick drum / toms/ vocals / guitars all sound fantastic but the bass tone is lacking ! Tired of hearing my bass player friends at a show say "can't hear the bass - can't hear any articulation with your notes on runs etc etc the bottom end is definitely there but there's no punch and mids.... Any suggestions ????
    Signed
    Frustrated
     
  2. Winfred

    Winfred

    Oct 21, 2011
    Do you have a sound tech running the board?

    Define "weak and stale".
     
  3. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    We run our own sound ... And we are all experienced seasoned guys .. Weak meaning there's no punch to it out front .. It's almost like there's a gap between the 18's and the 12's.. Kind of hard to explain but there's def fat bottom end and highs but there's no mid definition and it's just weak above 80hz.. It thumps on the bottom but anything else is simply stale and weak out front ... How can my 2 single
    12 cabs have more mid punch and articulation vs a nice front of house system??... I've tried and tried but I go out front and play a tune like earth wind and fire or ain't no stopping us now and I play the line and the notes just don't cut through its just bottom
     
  4. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Supporting Member

    With large speakers it depends on where you listen. Too close to the stage and you can't hear what the audience gets.

    And it would be helpful to explain the problem in terms of frequencies, not old bread (stale.)
     
  5. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    Doesn't matter where I go out front .. As far as frequencies let's say you plug your bass into your rig and it's full and thick and articulates from bottom to top in all areas like my rig does when any of my basses are plugged in and then you go out front and it's just lacking and sounds nothing like your rig sounds like ... Just frustrating thinking your bass sounds like what you hear ok stage or in your in ears which we all use then you go out front and it takes the wind right out of my sail...
     
  6. FunkHead

    FunkHead Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Is your FOH sound not being colored by your amps Preamp?
     
  7. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    I run my bass through my radial DI into the board
     
  8. derrico1

    derrico1 Supporting Member

    Apr 12, 2005
    Charlottesville, VA
    When no other instruments are playing and your stage amp muted, how does your bass sound out front when soloed through the PA? If it's imbalanced in favor of the subs, check whether you're running aux-fed subs w/ the bass over-emphasized in the sub. If so dialing the bass back some in the sub feed and bringing it up in the tops mix should help.

    OTOH, if the bass sounds good soloed through the FOH, then frequency slotting, arrangement, and the FOH mix are your likely paths to a solution. Alternatively, if the FOH bass sounds good soloed but weak once you bring up your stage amp, then multiple source interference b/w amp and FOH stacks is likely at least part of your problem.
     
    Esoge, RoeyHaviv, MattZilla and 2 others like this.
  9. FunkHead

    FunkHead Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    Add a Darkglass B3k to it.
     
    kenneffdupriest likes this.
  10. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    Turned my amp off and i went out front last night to hear the bass in the FOH... Sounded weak and is missing everything I explained .. Sorry should have said I did that also a few times to try and figure how to fix it but nothing seems to be working .. I took my iPad out from with my bass and tried son eq'ing to no avail... Big fat bottom but nothing Else
     
  11. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    I don't think that's the solution :)
    I need a fat even punchy uncolored bass tone for this band but thanks
     
  12. Biggbass

    Biggbass

    Dec 14, 2011
    Planet Earth
    I had an experience once where a sound guy came up to me and asked me to roll off most of the
    low end on my amp tone settings and increase the upper mids. He said it sounded flat and muddy out front. So I did, reluctantly, until he gave me the thumbs up. It sounded like thinned out crap at the amp but everyone I talked to after the show said the bass sounded great and they could hear the notes instead of just a muddy low boom.
    go figure.
    but the moral of this story is; the secret is apparently in the upper mids. but what do I know?
    I stand in front of an amp, not 100 feet out front. I do know that the room has a lot to do with bass clarity and punch and every room is different.
     
  13. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    Are you running a DSP between mixer and tops/subs?
    sounds like the issue is the HP/LP settings between the two if you are not.. and if you are, your crossover points need adjustment.
    18's and 12's will not provide that spread you are looking for without some adjustments...
     
    PDGood likes this.
  14. Play some Dire Straits through the PA and make it sound all natural like by tweaking the PA. Take the amp DI post EQ into a vocal channel, no aux sub routine malarkey. If that doesn't come close I will eat your shorts.
     
    1954bassman likes this.
  15. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    He uses a jbl drive rack... Can you explain to me some things to look for and what the xover points should be set at? And you said "spread" that's the word I was looking for !! THANKS... There's no frequency "spread " it's bottom end and no mid articulation at all
     
  16. blastbass

    blastbass Banned

    Mar 8, 2016
    bombay
    Try miking the cab..
     
    Honch, okcrum, Dgl44 and 1 other person like this.
  17. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    I considered that also... But I've gotten great bass tone at many many venues without doing that and it seems I shouldn't have to and there's gotta be a way to get my rig to sound good without it.. Thanks for your reply and to all who are trying to help me out I greatly appreciate it !
    I'm gonna figure this out !!
     
  18. FunkHead

    FunkHead Supporting Member

    Mar 10, 2007
    So you are saying that using the exact same setup you got great results at other clubs??
     
  19. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    depends on how he has it set up... has he auto-RTA'd the PA ?? Meaning, put a reference mic out front and run pink noise thru the system to set the crossover points and the DSP's EQ settings?
    If so, then reset the DSP.
    The K12's handle 52Hz-18KHz, and idk what subs you have, so can't check those specs, but "guessing", you probably want the H/L crossover point set somewhere around 90-105Hz.
    I also guessing that R&B/Funk has a lot being fed into the tops.. keys,vocals, etc.. and those K12's right now are trying to do too much.
    Without more details on your setup.. it's a needle in the haystack search.
     
  20. slamsinger

    slamsinger

    Feb 8, 2009
    Coventry RI
    We use a peavey verssaray double 18 for a sub (yeah I know peavey but it's crazy good sounding ) mackie dl32 into the jbl driverack .. I'm pretty sure he's rta mic'd it and ran it to flatten it out so to say... I think the k12's aren't enough for what we do either but like I stated everything else sounds great .. Vocals - guitars - drums- we sequence all the keyboard parts and one singer plays Sax and they all sound great (we usually play clubs so no need for a giant system) the kick and toms are fat warm and punchy with nice attack on them ... I figure there's no reason why my bass shouldnt sound that way but something is out of Wack lol
     

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