- Dec 21, 2007
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- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
I too get exactly what I want and need from my fretless with a Mesa WD-800
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Ok I need another bass amp..
- Thread starter Dm7b5
- Start date
Guitar amps don't have tweeters -- a hi-fi bass cabinet will sound very different.
I like fifteens BECAUSE of their midrange, at least in the cabs I choose. And the even, musical, gentle rolloff in the highs sounds very organic to me. I truly think that the hi-fi cab recommendations are in the opposite direction of what the OP is seeking.
Well... This Guy doesn't seem to have a Problem in achieving exact that with "just" a couple of Markbass-Amps.
I love Michael Manring's playing. His rhythmic approach is so lyrical!
My guess is your problem relates more to the amp than the cab. If want more vocal mids, check designs with a cone mid range.
A couple that comes to mind:
Bass Cabinets Archives - Genzler Amplification
Baer Amplification Bass Guitar Speaker Cabinets (baeramps.com)
IMHO ideally you go nuts and play a bunch of different cabs and hopefully you will find that does what you want.
Keep in mind the bass, amp, and cab work as a system. So all three have to work together to produce the desired results. Your amp may not produce that desired results with your current cab, but it may work well with a different cab.
I would also suggest that you temper your expectations. I have played through lot's of different rigs over the years, and none of them really captured the intimacy and delicate nuance you get from playing through a HiFi cab at low volume. About the closest you can get is probably IEMs or a good set of headphones. This problem relates to both the limits of cab design and also degradation caused by the acoustics in most life performance spaces.
Using regular bass gear, the closest I got involved elevating my cab and aiming it at my ears. The idea was to hear the full response of the cab and get it as close to my head as possible, so I heard more direct sound than indirect sound.
I also tended to hype the mids and highs somewhat to help overcome the masking that occurs in a live mix. The masking relates to your own indirect sound bouncing back to you, as well as the direct and indirect sound of other players and vocalists. Basically if two sound sources produce the same frequency, you only hear the source that is loudest at your ears.
A couple that comes to mind:
Bass Cabinets Archives - Genzler Amplification
Baer Amplification Bass Guitar Speaker Cabinets (baeramps.com)
IMHO ideally you go nuts and play a bunch of different cabs and hopefully you will find that does what you want.
Keep in mind the bass, amp, and cab work as a system. So all three have to work together to produce the desired results. Your amp may not produce that desired results with your current cab, but it may work well with a different cab.
I would also suggest that you temper your expectations. I have played through lot's of different rigs over the years, and none of them really captured the intimacy and delicate nuance you get from playing through a HiFi cab at low volume. About the closest you can get is probably IEMs or a good set of headphones. This problem relates to both the limits of cab design and also degradation caused by the acoustics in most life performance spaces.
Using regular bass gear, the closest I got involved elevating my cab and aiming it at my ears. The idea was to hear the full response of the cab and get it as close to my head as possible, so I heard more direct sound than indirect sound.
I also tended to hype the mids and highs somewhat to help overcome the masking that occurs in a live mix. The masking relates to your own indirect sound bouncing back to you, as well as the direct and indirect sound of other players and vocalists. Basically if two sound sources produce the same frequency, you only hear the source that is loudest at your ears.
Curse you. I thought my gas was dead.If cost was not an issue I would buy this:
Rheingold B100 - Rheingold-Music
Super HIFI full tube head, discribed as organic and touch responsive.
From what I read on their Facebook page, the majority of bassists who use these amps play jazz, which doesn't mean that it is limited to jazz music, but at least it should be well suited for a very sensitive playing style, fretless.
Or this:
the Offset XL – Bass Amplifier
(or both)
From the rest of your post, it seems you were trying to say the opposite of this - that the issue is with the cabinet, not the amp. Assuming i'm reading that right, I agree. A different cabinet is probably where you should be looking.
Sounds to me like you want a full range speaker. Maybe look at a powered PA like a QSC K2 and a bass pre like a Mesa preamp/DI.
I like the idea of a preamp/power amp combo. You'll get the cleanest power amp with all the everything that signal processing can give you. I've gone ampless + IEM for years now and love it because I can get any sound I want out of my gear. When I use an amp, depending on the gig I'll either run the preamp+pedalboard into the back of a Quilter BB800 or I'll just use the Quilter by itself. Lately I've been using a modeler because of everything I can get out of it, but I also have a Mesa Subway Plus preamp that sounds amazing. On fretless I like the modeler because I can get the oomph of an Ampeg with a great 2x15+tweeter IR plus that touch of delay + reverb that decorates the sound perfectly. It's also a 96hz recording interface with only 2ms of latency. Then it's a matter of finding a speaker that can reproduce that correctly--except I can run two paths and put a parametric eq on the channel going to the speaker to correct any frequency deficiencies. I'm liking that setup so far and it might work for others.
Does your piezo need a high impedance input or does it have a onboard pre? On the DB side it is very typical to use a pre with a high z input to properly match with the output impedance of the piezo.
Yes I think a cab is likely to be more of a factor than the amp.
IMHO the rest of the post was intended to say this a complicated problem and it's important to have reasonable expectations. I.E. don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
THIS. RIGHT. HERE. As good as those demos sounded, none of them were of an EBG running straight piezo pickups.
The first thing I would try to figure out in your shoes is how to run my Roland into my mark bass cab and how to run the mark bass head into the Roland speaker.
If the Roland sounds good through the mb cab then you need a new head. If the mb sounds good through the Roland speaker then you need a new cab. If both combos sound like crap then you need a whole new rig.
What you describe tells me that a fEarful cab or genzler array would be a good starting point but my brain also tells me that the Roland definitely doesn't sound like those.
The Rheingolds look cool as hell, but jumping to a conclusion like that seems like throwing gear at a problem without actually trying to nail down any solid research. Kinda what I do with plugins for my mixing and mastering. If I keep throwing money at random plugins, one day I'll find the magic plugin, I'm sure of it.
On a side note, if you get a high quality speaker system I can't imagine a tone you can't coax from a Kemper or Quad Cortex. It's certainly not as spiritually motivating as a new handmade tube amp, but I don't even bother pulling out my B15 anymore and just rely on my Kemper.
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Your specifications in the first paragraph could be interpreted in such a way that any amp of decent quality can fit the bill.Yup I need another bass amp.
Not for rock, not for metal, not funk of slapping, maybe not even for standard jazz, but something that's really sensitive, organic and vocal and can stand completely alone.
I know I just bought the new Markbass 58R 500 watt head, and the M58r 151 PURE 400-watt cab.. but I have found that it doesn't quite properly accommodate my 5-string fretless with the piezo pickup.
I have an Ibanez SRF705 5 string fretless that sounds absolutely divine through my Roland JC-40 guitar amp.
The AeroSilk Piezo pickup system sounds very organic, extremely sensitive, articulate and expressive like you cannot imagine. That thing can make you weep simply playing scales..
But as soon as I plug this fretless bass into to the latest MarkBass bass head and cab all of that life seems to get ironed out and flattened.. it sounds almost bland, sterile and lifeless in comparison and the gorgeous 'Muah' I had effortlessly on practically every note on every string on all it’s 3.5 octave neck is completely gone.
The Markbass thunderous beast that it is has turned my hyper sensitive, highly expressive, highly vocal fretless into an ordinary thumping bass guitar.
I have other bass guitars if I need to just thump away.
Before I get castigated I should state that I spent maybe 7 hours yesterday tweaking all the knobs and dials and trying every possible configuration on the head and I still couldn't bring the Ibanez to anywhere near the same level of life it was experiencing on the JC-40.
The Markbass is kind of ok with the Bartolini pickups, (the Roland is still nicer, sweeter and purer though) but that's not what I use at all on this particular bass. I could remove the Bartolini's on this bass and would not even miss them. I spend 100% of my time on the AeroSilk Piezo pickup system. In fact that’s the very reason that I bought it.
I know a lot of people in discussions on here talk about a bass 'cutting through the mix', or occupying a specific frequency range so they able to sit in with a band and other instruments, particularly drummers and loud guitarists...
But that's not quite what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a bass amp that accentuates all frequencies and can stand completely alone as a solo instrument. No mix.. no band. Just this bass. I'm looking for the highest sensitivity, high definition, audiophile quality I can get across all the entire tonal spectrum and as expressive and as close as I can get to the human voice 'a cappella'.
Cost is not an issue.
Any recommendations please?
I’ve owned Acoustic Image amps that add little color to my sound, but sensitive?articulate?organic?vocal?
Those sound more like settings and technique variables.
I would probably say AER, Genzler, or Acoustic Image would be a good place to look for a head, as far as cabs I would suggest checking out Revsound, or Barefaced.
uhm, the JC-40 is a modern one, right? have you tried some (recently discontinued) Roland Cube Bass, like the 120XL? it might be just your cup of tea, if you can still find it, and is built like a tank.
Boss/Roland's current line-up includes a Katana Bass 210, but not sure, if it's close enough.
Boss/Roland's current line-up includes a Katana Bass 210, but not sure, if it's close enough.
Which is why I don't think OP will fix this with a new head. Regardless of what amp he's using, the tweeter in his markbass cab isn't going to recreate the jazz chorus sound. Idk if he'd want "hifi" or not but a different cab will make a bigger difference here than another head.
Agreed, above I suggested Bag end cabs. Something with a clear speaking midrange, decent highs but rolled off.
Demo Stock
MB112 @ 5 bones.
Will cure what ails you (GAS and more) and you'll sell it for more than you paid if you don't like it.
My GK journey has rendered MarkBass and FenderRumbles as.. 'thin'.. alternatives.
Only the Eden still has the umph I seek in toneville after my GK journey, and that's because the EQ points and overall low end response is bonkers on the Eden.
MB112 @ 5 bones.
Will cure what ails you (GAS and more) and you'll sell it for more than you paid if you don't like it.
My GK journey has rendered MarkBass and FenderRumbles as.. 'thin'.. alternatives.
Only the Eden still has the umph I seek in toneville after my GK journey, and that's because the EQ points and overall low end response is bonkers on the Eden.
Yup I need another bass amp.
"Before I get castigated"......
Never apologize for your own tastes. I am glad you made the effort to find YOUR Sound instead of mimicking the bleating.
