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Okay, so who else is having serious problems with their Ashdown ABM?

WovenGraphite said:
It is interesting that people who have no problem with Ashdown are in the UK while others with issue are in the US.
I, myself, went through a power amp mechanical issue and quickly rev'd back to another power amp.

Beyond the obvious chauvinism I am wondering if the power requirement could cause some trouble. The power supplies are different and I know for example that with Apple computers, more problems have shown up in 220/240V countries than 110V...

Could explain some of the clipping mentioned when the power supply is not providing enough juice for the circuits...

Looking through the posts about Ashdown reliability, I've been noticing exactly the same trend and it intrigues me. Mind you, we may be getting a skewed impression here, because the vast majority of TB members live in America.
 
WinterBass said:
I have had my Klystron ABM 400 for about 8 years now and (knock on wood) have not had any problems with it. I have played the amp on average 3 or 4 nights a week and keep it in a hard road case. It is still in new condition and sounds fantastic. I have not found a better amp yet.

Wow! You've got a Klystron? That's the original mother of all ABM. I'm not surprised you haven't had any issues with it. That beauty was probably hand-built under Mark Gooday's own supervision!
 
Ashdown is made in China correct?
Hello.

SMASH said:
It's great if they've got it sorted out, and kudos to you for keeping at them.

Is there a notice on their website by any chance? Rather than waiting to hear from people, they could start by getting these repaired or off the market :

It took me just a few minutes to find these threads, and this is only going back one year (as of about 2 months ago when I searched for these) and not including many Ashdown problem threads I've seen which didn't have the brand name in the title. I look at it every time I GAS for one.

I've had 3 Ashdowns myself, all combos, never a problem except the common VU dying issue for which some say they'd been offered free replacements but all I ever got was an offer to sell me a new one.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...hlight=ashdown

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165312

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...hlight=ashdown

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165312

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Let me chime in here ( my thread after all dammit!!)

First off, I'm still using Ashdown, and after many troubles have finally gotten a properly functioning head.

I'd like to address several of the concerns that were brought up in this thread and many others about Ashdown problems and reliabilty concerns.

1) "Bad" Transformers: As many of you know, the transformer accounts for most of the weight in an amplifier, and is the device used to transform wall electricity into the current needed to run the amplifier's components and feed the output circuitry. There are a couple of different kinds, but most solid state / hybrid amps use toroidal transformers. As many of you also know, the output voltages from the wall (or mains) vary greatly from country to country and even vary from State to State in the US. For the most part, the US main voltages are between 110 and 120 volts. In the UK, the mains voltage is usually 230v. You dont need to be an electrician to know that most of the civilized world has more juice coming from the wall than the US. This is why there is no global standard for transformers in any kind of electrical application. The transformer in a European amp may not be the same one you'd find in an American amp from the same manufacturer. Different manufacturers take different approaches to this problem. Many US manufacturers get their amp out of the development stage and ready for the street with a rated output of, for example, 750 watts. With minor modification they export this amp to the UK and elsewhere, knowing that due to the difference in mains voltages the amp may actually put out a higher wattage RMS in those countries, for example perhaps 805 watts. These differences are almost unnoticeable until you find yourself in the reverse situation where a manufacturer from an area with 230 or 300 volt mains ships out an amplifier rated at 750 watts rms to the USA. Again the difference is almost unnoticeable (maybe it puts out 697 watts instead of the rated 750) until you reach the absolute tope end of the amplifier's output capabilities. What literally happens inside your solid state power section under these conditions is this: You SLAM on your B string and let ring for a few seconds, the transformer is sucking electricity in from the wall, converting it and siphoning that current into the amp's power supply capacitors, which in turn feed the output board which sends a huge signal to your cabinet ( in this case all of the aformentioned 697 watts ) in order to keep the speakers moving according to the signal from your bass....... BUT you have a high wattage speaker cabinet and your amp is straining to keep up and the power supply capacitors are literallysucked dry trying to reproduce the bass signal faster than the transformer can recharge them...why?? becuase at 110v or even 120v the transformer literally cannot "suck" enough current from the wall outlet to keep up!! What happens when you hit the B sting a second time? ...........BRRRAAAAAPPP........ you've just clipped out and farted your speakers. All because the rated output of your amp was based on using 230V mains current. Quality manufacturers such as Ashdown, Mark Bass, EBS and Glockenklang realize the nature of these problems, and either provide different transformers for US import products, or design thier amps with large enough or enough quantity of power supply capacitors to make sure that the end user has enough headroom to account for the differences. This extra power supply capacitance accounts for the difference you see in RMS and PEAK power. The PEAK power is what your amplifier is capable of in very short bursts when the capacitors are fully charged.

Now to get back to the point of this thread, IT IS TRUE that Ashdown may have accidentally sent a number of amplifiers to the USA with 230V rated transformers / output boards. This resulted in a number of amps that would clip out at full power at 4 ohms. It's important to note that most of these amps rated at 575 watts RMS WERE IN FACT PRODUCING very close to thier rated output, but had very little in reserve or PEAK power. Ashdown aknowledges this problem and it HAS IN FACT BEEN CORRECTED. If you feel as though you might be experiencing this problem, dont go rushing off to call Ashdown screaming about you want a new transformer cuz your amp ain't be loud enough...... Bring your amp to an Ashdown authorized dealer and have them remove the amp from its casing. Written right on top of the heatsinks you will clearly see the output board Voltage rating, If your heatsink says 110v or 120v, the amp is not the problem. If it says 230V then call Ashdown.

2) Busted VU Meters: Ok we all know that bass is an instrument that produces an ungodly amount of vibration, especially when using a standalone head placed right on top of your speaker cabinet. Ashdown is still a relatively new company by Music Industry standards, and altho they key people at the top of the company are big names and have been around for a while, you won't find Martin Burrows on the assembly line arguing the finer points of uF capacitance with R&D. Having personally cracked open several ABM series amps manufactured between 2003 and 2006 I can tell you that these amps have been CONTINUALLY IMPROVED in terms of component quality, specification and most importantly, structural rigidity. Changes such as dual mounting of the seperate Subharmonzer board, bigger resistors on the soft-start board, shock-mounting the output transformer and capacitors, placing a rubber bushing on the front of the VU meter to help with vibration, thicker lead-wires, extra output transistors, thicker gauge metal for the housing, extruded and bolted mounts to secure the housing to the wooden case, and the list goes on and on. This type of continual and ongoing improvement is rarely seen in bigger name Amp makers. For years Aguilar had problems with thier DB series rackmount amps where if you set whatever roadcase it was housed in on its back too hard, or even if you let your case sit end-up for too long the faceplate of the amp would bend in at the rackmount point noticeably. The problem existed for quite some time and probably occurred in a great number of DB359s due to thier inherent weight, but rather than provide a quick fix which may have been of lesser quality, Aguilar developed and "field-tested" a permanent solution for the Db750s. All manufacturers must go thru a certain amount of "trial & error".

3) Amps arriving broken or non-functional: Has anyone on this board ever worked for UPS or Fedex? Both companies, and UPS especially, may as well play soccer with the parcels they ship for all the care and concern given to thier shipment. I've seen it, trust me. Also, many Wal-Mart music dealers ( musiciansfriend, GC etc etc ) order ENOURMOUS quantities of stuff which are likely stored in less than ideal conditions, and treated equally poorly by thier staff. Often times, the Dealer's Mega-Warehouse ships out 10 amps of a certain brand to one store, only 3 of them sell, 7 of them are shipped back to the warehouse, then reshipped to another store which only sells 4 of them, and the remaining three are shipped back to the warehouse AGAIN and each shipped BACK OUT to another location. This sort of treatment is fine when we're talking about sneakers or 12oz cell phones, but when we're dealing with highly sensitive musical instrument amplifiers weighing in at 35 - 75lbs, then results are often very ugly. If you buy your amp from whatever maker at one of these Wal-Music dealers, you run the risk of buying an amp off the shelf that's already undergone a less than gentle shipping process 3, 4, 5 or even 7 times, effectively getting a brand new amp that's already experienced more transit trauma than you're likely to give in the first 2 years of ownership mounted in a roadcase!! ( minus the cigarette smoke, spilled beer, and various organic and artificial liquids prone to go flying about at certain shows ;) )

In short, there is no one size fits all solution for global standardization in electronics, so perfection and complete uniformity WILL NOT be achieved by ANY musical instrument amplifier manufacturer any time soon. What we look for is makers who strive to come as close as they can. Ampeg is not one of them. :ninja:

Ashdown has after-sale support absolutely unmatched by anyone except Jorg Schroeder, so dont be shy about calling them.

Anyone with any questions about a specific problem they're having with thier Ashdown, please feel free to PM me.

Hope I've been of help to some of you.
 
pablomigraine said:
Ashdown has after-sale support absolutely unmatched by anyone ....

Can you provide a link to a warning for this problem on their website? I don't see it on there.

When can registered owners expect to receive a notice to check inside their amps for this problem?

I'm glad to hear of this apparent turnaround in their support. Even very recently (in this thread I believe) you quoted them as admitting they were having serious QC and support issues, and when I contacted them about VU issues a few years ago their support was unsatisfactory (and our biggest music intrument retail chain up here stopped carrying them due to QC and serivce issues I was told by a bass dept. rep), so a real improvement in reliability and service is key in possibly regaining my allegiance (although as I said, I sold mine before I was aware of these problems and mine had no functional issues - I consider the VU purely cosmetic).
 
SMASH said:
Can you provide a link to a warning for this problem on their website? I don't see it on there.

When can registered owners expect to receive a notice to check inside their amps for this problem?

I'm glad to hear of this apparent turnaround in their support. Even very recently (in this thread I believe) you quoted them as admitting they were having serious QC and support issues, and when I contacted them about VU issues a few years ago their support was unsatisfactory (and our biggest music intrument retail chain up here stopped carrying them due to QC and serivce issues I was told by a bass dept. rep), so a real improvement in reliability and service is key in possibly regaining my allegiance (although as I said, I sold mine before I was aware of these problems and mine had no functional issues - I consider the VU purely cosmetic).


Okay I will try and answer these questions to the best of my knowledge but it's important to note I only know what my experience has been....


As far as the warning on the site.... I can only answer like this: Imagine you manufacture golf shoes. Lets say you sell 12,000 pair per year worldwide, all of which are sold thru 3rd party dealers. Lets say you're notified that two end users had the laces on your golf shoes fail and snap under wet conditions. Upon researching the matter, you discover that both the complaintants live in an area with consistently high humidity, and are pro-golfers playing 5-8 games per week. You know that the laces you provide (bought wholesale and in huge quantities from another manufacturer) work exceedingly well, and you have at the time only two actual confirmed cases of the laces failing, altho there may be rumours of many more. What would you, the manufacturer do to handle the situation? Would you issue a general recall on all shoes at all retailers world-wide and tell every customer and every dealer that they'll simply have to wait till you find a new manufacturer whos laces have less than one instance of failure under specific conditions per every 10,000 pair? Would you even post something on your website stating that in your best guess 1 in every 1000 pair of shoes currently for sale from your company world-wide MAY have come euquipped with laces that have the potential to fail under unusually heavy use but only in consistently wet conditions? This is of course an absurd illustration but accurately parallells the Ashdown sitaution neccesitating a general warning on the website above and beyond the general warranty. In my experience 1 in 50 Ampeg amps have some sort of quality control issue.

As far as notice to check your amps guts: again, lets be reasonable here. Using the example above if you had only two or three verified instances regardless of rumours of many many more, the greatest portion of which are found to be user error, would you send out 45,000 letter to everyone you ever sold a pair of golf shoes to asking them to please unlace thier shoes, soak them with water and give them a tug to check thier strength? Or wouls you simply honor every warranty request as stated?

3 years from now, Ashdown amps on the shelves, along with many other makers' products will be more reliable and house innumerable small improvements over one I bought in 2006, just as one I bought in 2006 has had many improvements over the ones sold in 2003, some of which I listed above. You cant go crying to Ford that the 2006 Explorer gets better gas mileage than your 2003 explorer, or that it has nicer headlights etc etc. These basic business tenets are true for all manufacturers of specialty products, most especially electronics. Ford for example has been in the business of making cars for over a hundred years and each modelthey offer is freshened up with God knows how many improvements every 4 or 5 years. I never saw a flashing red sign on the Aguilar site about the rack ears problem, nor do I see a big flashing banner on Behringer's site saying " hey.... it will probably work, but maybe not, we dont know because we didn't design it or build it... so dont ask us..." Most makers set out to design an amplifier with vast resources employed specifically to forsee every imaginable abuse, wear or or abnormal operating condition thier product may undergo during its lifetime, and design and engineer whatever safeguard or reliability enhancing feature they feel best protects thier product from such so as to provide a quality of ownership to the end user. AND it has to sound good. Lets cut them some slack shall we? Is there a more demanding consumer than the musician in terms of the level of quality and reliability we expect? Furthermore, is there another consumer group who puts a highly specialized, sensitive electronic products under more consistent or severe duress and use than musicians? The only thing that even comes close to seeing as much wear and tear from an owner so bent on performance, features, value and reliability is cellular telephones. Anyone here had a completely problem-free cell phone in the past 5 years?

As far as customer service, It has been explained to me, and I have attempted to convey in this thread and others, the incredibly hard time Ashdown had breaking into this country in terms of distribution, and anyone can imagine the massive problems any company offering a specialized electronic product might have setting up an infrastructure in a foreign country for the first time. Thier USA customer support staff has only very recently been effectuated and lets face it, the website isnt much help and needs alot of work. (like specs on the cabinets) If ANYONE, ANYWHERE in the US has a problem with thier amp, contact Musical Distributer Group in NJ. They are the US base for support staff for Ashdown. The number is..... Phone: (Toll Free) 866-632-8346 / Fax: 973-335-7779. They will fix your problem or replace your amp with minimal fuss IN MY EXPERIENCE....

I'm not here trying to pump Ashdown. Im here trying to relate how they turned a very negative experience into a very positive one for me, and give a detailed explanation of those events leading up to the problem. And bear in mind, the thing had to sound damn good in order for me to have put up with of this at all, considering I dumped top gear from Ampeg, GK, BBE, Crest, Eden etc in a matter of weeks when it didnt please me...
 
pablomigraine said:
If ANYONE, ANYWHERE has a problem with thier amp, contact them. They will fix your problem or replace your amp with minimal fuss IN MY EXPERIENCE....

I'm not here trying to pump Ashdown. Im here trying to relate how they turned a very negative experience into a very positive one for me, and give a detailed explanation of those events leading up to the problem.

+ 1 on that!

I had the same problem as Paul, as was treated like a high-profile endorser by Martin Burrows. He shipped (directly to) me a fully fonctionnal amp, and I told him it was fine when I received it. Then, one month later, he contacted me to ask how I was doing, and to make sure there was still no problem with the amp! Talk about a follow up on their products...

Little things like that tells me that they really care about their products, and also the bass players who use them.
 
1kinal said:
+ 1 on that!

I had the same problem as Paul, as was treated like a high-profile endorser by Martin Burrows. He shipped (directly to) me a fully fonctionnal amp, and I told him it was fine when I received it. Then, one month later, he contacted me to ask how I was doing, and to make sure there was still no problem with the amp! Talk about a follow up on their products...

Little things like that tells me that they really care about their products, and also the bass players who use them.

Martin is an excellent fellow, and seriously persues problems to the customer's satsifaction. I've heard the same sort of thing about a certain Canadian Bass maker.... ;)
 
SMASH said:
I've had 3 Ashdowns myself, all combos, never a problem except the common VU dying issue for which some say they'd been offered free replacements but all I ever got was an offer to sell me a new one.

My ABM500 is still working, but the VU meter did die as well. I only got an offer to buy a new one - about $50 shipped.

I also love Ashdown tone, but I *hate* always wondering if tonight will be the night my amp craps out at the gig. VU aside, it hasn't failed me yet, but with all this in the air, it makes a fellow concerned.

I even considered going to an Aguilar AG500 for this reason alone.
 
I'm one of Ashdowns earliest endorsers(before most had even heard of the brand)and I have nothing but great things to say about the product and I can say that Mark Gooday,Martin Burrows,Jack Thompson,Barry Konowitz,Mike Van Tine and the rest of the Ashdown team stand behind the product 110%,they do not care if you are some big name artist,they are concerned whether or not that you are a overly fully satisfied customer.
 
pablomigraine said:
This is of course an absurd illustration

Totally agree.


but accurately parallells the Ashdown sitaution neccesitating a general warning on the website above and beyond the general warranty.

Totally disagree.


In my experience 1 in 50 Ampeg amps have some sort of quality control issue.

Based on what? And how would this relate to the topic? Many brands make amps for foreign markets, including Behringer, and everyone ships their stuff around. None that I've read about have had such widespread problems, now admitted to be the fault of the manufacturer.

Basically, I'm not buying the excuses and analogies you're making at all. Especially the assertion that they "want to hear from anyone having these problems". If "they want to hear from anyone" amounts to just saying so to you, then they're not hoping too hard to hear from troubled clients.

Mesa has twice put out warnings on their site and on the wall of every one of their dealers, a notice offering free repair of amps including amps that had not yet, and might never, exhibit problems. Further, these were problems that would not necessarily prevent someone from gigging and potentially paying their rent and buying food with the gig proceeds.

As for their customer service and how well they treat everyone, to offer to sell for $50 + shipping a cheap part (the VU) that they freely admit are "fragile" (so arguably should not have been used to begin with) instead of offering a free repleacement or at least a replacement at cost, I think is lame. And I am quite sure that they would not ask Adam Clayton to pay for a replacement and others on this very board have said they got their VU free, so they clearly don't treat everyone the same.

I'm glad they're admitting their problems and working hard to turn it around. I'm glad you've had this turn out positively. I think they expanded way too fast and put far too much effort into cosmetics (a major part of their initial popularity and my initial attraction, so kudos for what a cool design) and I've said before on these boards it'd come back to haunt them. Ashdown went from not existing to being almost everywhere in no time at all. Such rapid expansion always leads to problems, and I didin't perceive any of the great difficulties penetrating the market you alluded to. I'd go so far as to say no possibly no amp brand has ever had a more rapid proliferation of the market.

Almost from day one they were in our major music retail chain (in Canada) but they lost their representation there because, as the head of one of their major bass departments told me, their quality and service were too poor (I think this was in partly due to losing their 3rd party service here, which may or may not have been their fault). If they regain that trust, I'll check out their stuff again. I think they've got a long hard road ahead of them though, but wish them all the best.

Again, the ones I've had (3 in total, 2 of them early models) all functioned well, but I can also say that two exhibited problems (VU on one, and now my After Eight needs a reboot once in awhile to restore sound, the third was fine when I sold it so I can't speak for it but it served me well in light use). The problems we're discussing here were not yet known when I sold mine, but I'd have sold them had I come to hear about these issues. As someone above said, I'd not be comfortable wondering during a gig when it might be my turn for a failure, and that's why I decided against our proposed trade (plus I knew that my amp wouldn't give you greater volume so you'd not have been satisifed). The build was very tight on all of my Ashdowns, even the Chineese one, and I dug the sound of all of them so I respect that and maybe someday I'll feel confident enough to return to the brand.

Until then, I'd be more eager to do so and have more respect if they were proactive in resolving the current issues which IMO are far more widespread and unique to their brand than your analogies/apologies would suggest.

Easy for me to say, I admit, since I am not footing the bill. That's how this past, current, but not likely future, customer and working musician sees it.
 
I will not say the companies name but it's a major company that has been around far longer than most of us here at tb and it has a good rep for some serious quality control issues itself.This company just a few years ago offered Ashdown millions to sell the company and when Ashdown chose not to sell,this company attempted to keep Ashdown out of the USA.One of the reasons this company wanted to buy Ashdown is because Ashdown is giving it some heavy competition and if one takes the time and research will see that Ashdown is in more countries that any other Bass amp in the world.
 
Interesting exchange, but I'm still in a bind. Do I keep the Ashdown and its tone that I love, or do I switch to something else with a better reputation?

So far only the ($50) VU meter has crapped out, but I'm paranoid now. I know of at least a couple bass players (and TB'ers) who have made the switch based on reliability concerns.

:(
 
CaptainWally said:
Interesting exchange, but I'm still in a bind. Do I keep the Ashdown and its tone that I love, or do I switch to something else with a better reputation?

So far only the ($50) VU meter has crapped out, but I'm paranoid now. I know of at least a couple bass players (and TB'ers) who have made the switch based on reliability concerns.

:(

most gigs have a pa... bring an extra di box, just in case. a sansamp would be ideal. if you want to succomb further to paranoia, bring around a second amp or small combo. get a roadie, too.

amps/cabs crap out, it's a fact of life. it sucks that ashdown now has this reputation, but you should always be prepared to play on, no matter what the circumstances. grab a guitar and an octave pedal, if you have to.

(by the way, i've been told that the aforementioned change of US distribution companies is what led to all this rigmarole.)

i went ahead and bought an abm500rc recently, and i have full faith in it. if it craps out at a gig, i'll figure it out. mang.
 
just thought i would update my post above... my ashdown has broken down twice in a week! :mad: i might be able to get it fixed by tomorrow (i work for a repair shop) for a gig, but that still means no rehearsal today:help: