Old Gear vs. Modern Bass Tech

[Gervais Cote]

Having owned some old gear when it was new, and having bought since some good condition vintage amps and cabs, for me I definitely prefer modern gear.

A Fender with sharp fretboard edges, wonky bridge and heavy a$$ tuners, with a Phillips truss rod adjuster, for 2-10x the price of a new Fender, regardless of country of manufacture? Nope, no thanks. An amp head that weighs 100 Lbs and heats my room better than the baseboard radiators for 2-3x the price of a top of the line Class D head? Nope. A 410 cab that weighs 100 Lbs but smells like stale beer and male cat spray? No thank you sir. Combine those aspects with scratchy pots and either replaced speakers or speakers that need to be replaced, and it’s a big heeel no from me.

Reading this makes me realize I don’t want ANY vintage stuff without a doubt.

 

[MtManiac]

Reading this makes me realize I don’t want ANY vintage stuff without a doubt.

Honestly, that’s where I am and have been for a bit. I’d rather new gear or at least used gear that is recent any day of the week.

Even a now-20-years-old 2006 American Standard Series Fender - typically when you seem something like that used these days, either the original chainsaw case is missing or it’s nearly destroyed, the S-1 switch is broken, the frets and fretboard have been ignored for years, they’ve got those older chunky Schaller tuners and the bridge that is one step up from a 90s Mexican Standard bridge, and the guy wants like $2000-3000 for it. Dude… no.

 

[Gervais Cote]

Honestly, that’s where I am and have been for a bit. I’d rather new gear or at least used gear that is recent any day of the week.

Even a now-20-years-old 2006 American Standard Series Fender - typically when you seem something like that used these days, either the original chainsaw case is missing or it’s nearly destroyed, the S-1 switch is broken, the frets and fretboard have been ignored for years, they’ve got those older chunky Schaller tuners and the bridge that is one step up from a 90s Mexican Standard bridge, and the guy wants like $2000-3000 for it. Dude… no.

The only vintage stuff I would consider is a Fender p bass with a slab rosewood fretboard from 1957 to 1964 and 100% original.

Price are totally insane though and I’m a musician, not a collector so it won’t happen.

 

[LowActionHero]

You ever tried using a Sun Coliseum for bedroom practice?

No, but I'd REALLY like to!!

 

[MtManiac]

Aside from the classic SVT/810 rig (which, at 200+ lbs would be a hard pass for me, I can NOT imagine hoisting that head up on top of that 810; I could do it, but why would I want to . . . ), and my well-known sentimental soft-spot for OG Trace Eliott (which has aged past serviceability plus the weight of a stereo head, 2 410's and 2-115's, the mind reels . . . ), there's no bass rigs from my past (back to the mid 70's) I'd gig with today with the choices I have now.

Rarely were any of those 70's rigs an honest 200 watts, so we were often easily out-gunned in a day where you had to carry the room, PA was little past Shure Vocal Masters, or a couple Voice of the Theatres for serious PA. Then in the 80's as SWR, Trace, and others came in, we began to have more power, but a lot of those brands weren't everywhere like Peavey or Fender. You didn't see many SVT's back then between the originals and when St Louis Music legitimately brought them back in the early 90's. I ran component rigs with a preamp/power amp rack and JBL Cabarets, but again, heavy metal to move, but at least I could keep up finally with big clean power. But any and all of this was relatively low power before breakup, and was often heavy, I commonly ran 150# 2-15 cabinets (common back then) and once for a while, a 18" folded horn, almost as tall as me.

So no, I don't have the warm and fuzzies for any of that, except maybe the English Trace stuff, but it's way past being anything but a babied home rig, the parts are all gone for all intents and purposes.

I was never one for 'vintage' basses as in 50's or 60's Fenders and the sort of thing they sell at Gruhn's or Carter's or Rumble Seat. I am occasionally interested in things that are discontinued and will never come back, say a Roscoe Beck 5, a PBass Lyte, the original Hamer Cruise Bass, MIJ 80's Japanese basses, but these choices are mostly outside the typical 'vintage market'.

Living through these times and with a long trail of where I've come from and how far bass gear has come, for me there has simply NEVER been a time like right now, as to me the 'good old days' were a constant frustration of very heavy gear that often just couldn't keep up with out farting out, or taking two or three people to move, and far, far fewer choices in just about any item you can think of.

When I started out . . .

You either bought a professional instrument like a PBass or a Jazz, or some stamp catalog sled like an Airline, a Teisco, etc., just dreadful wastes of time and money. Nothing like Squiers or Sires, except maybe the little short scale Fenders, which weren't much better.

You could get a Peavey, a Fender, the occasional Ampeg, and a bunch of also-rans like Earth or other bass amps. All of these were often REAL optimistic in their published (if at all . . ) performance figures, and were often little more than guitar cabinets with a solid back. WTH, Fender sold the 215 Dual Showman cabinets for guitar OR bass, same cabinet. 215's were the sort of defacto norms, guys had folded 18's, the 10's and 12's cabinets were all for guitar, Trace and SWR had not come along yet. Underpowered and underweight, like an 80's Trans Am . . . .

Fewer choices for strings, mostly flats and tapewounds, with Boomers and these new English Roto's were the roundwound choices.

Bass pedals? Uh-huh . . . .

And we all had to use the Conn Strobe Tuners for quite a while until KORG and BOSS tuners became common.

Now, I can tune on my phone, I can throw a five pound 800w amp the size of a cigar box in a zipper bag over my shoulder, and 30 or 40# cabinets that would blow any of my old stuff through the wall.

No. Go back? Uh-Uh.

Yep, same.

I started in ‘82, and my first owned bass was a red Harmony P-style bass from the Sears Bargain Basement in brand new condition which soon had flaking top coat on both the body and the fretboard, and honestly I didn’t even know what a set up was let alone whether I needed one or not.

My next bass was in ‘85, a USA-made Peavey Patriot, and the difference between the two was vast - the Peavey was a “real” bass. I played it exclusively until 2007, when after a 7 year hiatus of zero playing I finally bought my first American Fender, used, a 2006 model which I traded in on a brand new 2008 American Standard as soon as I could.

I’m all for the look of a vintage P or J or Ray or whatever. But I’ll take modern appointments and reliable improvements any day.

The Peavey now has a stuck truss rod, no turns left, and scratchy pots. The foam in the case disintegrated a couple of decades ago. Otherwise, I guess it’s fine. Quality-wise though I would not stack it up against an Indonesian Squier Classic Vibe or the newer Fender Standards, let alone a Player II or laughably a Professional II. Sound wise, same, no comparison.

If we had today’s “cheap garbage” back in the early 80s, it would have been a major game changer for many people. I can just imagine the sheer numbers of people who gave up playing because their Profile or Series A was always out of tune or impossible to intonate or the neck just couldn’t stay in one place overnight, not to mention sounded like junk or feel like junk in your hands. Any Squier Affinity today would absolutely blow any “starter gear” we had then completely out of the water.

So I have to find claims of how untouchable “pre-CBS quality” was to be quite suspect, especially considering the decades between 1964 and 1984.

Vintage gear, for the price of a good used car? No, thanks, I’m good.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Yep, same.

I started in ‘82, and my first owned bass was a red Harmony P-style bass from the Sears Bargain Basement in brand new condition which soon had flaking top coat on both the body and the fretboard, and honestly I didn’t even know what a set up was let alone whether I needed one or not.

My next bass was in ‘85, a USA-made Peavey Patriot, and the difference between the two was vast - the Peavey was a “real” bass. I played it exclusively until 2007, when after a 7 year hiatus of zero playing I finally bought my first American Fender, used, a 2006 model which I traded in on a brand new 2008 American Standard as soon as I could.

I’m all for the look of a vintage P or J or Ray or whatever. But I’ll take modern appointments and reliable improvements any day.

The Peavey now has a stuck truss rod, no turns left, and scratchy pots. The foam in the case disintegrated a couple of decades ago. Otherwise, I guess it’s fine. Quality-wise though I would not stack it up against an Indonesian Squier Classic Vibe or the newer Fender Standards, let alone a Player II or laughably a Professional II. Sound wise, same, no comparison.

If we had today’s “cheap garbage” back in the early 80s, it would have been a major game changer for many people. I can just imagine the sheer numbers of people who gave up playing because their Profile or Series A was always out of tune or impossible to intonate or the neck just couldn’t stay in one place overnight, not to mention sounded like junk or feel like junk in your hands. Any Squier Affinity today would absolutely blow any “starter gear” we had then completely out of the water.

So I have to find claims of how untouchable “pre-CBS quality” was to be quite suspect, especially considering the decades between 1964 and 1984.

Vintage gear, for the price of a good used car? No, thanks, I’m good.

I'm in total agreement about the vintage stuff. Good example - - a friend's neighbor had a Fender5 that he decided to sell. Wanted $4,500 for it, as a "friendly" price. My friend almost bought it. I researched it and the thing had a neck like a baseball bat, very short scale, p'ups didn't really cover the 5 strings, and it was tuned E-C. The only thing it had going for it was being the first 5 string Fender made. Hard as hell to play.

I think that for that kind of money you can get a really nice custom, made to your personal specifications, that will give you a much better playing experience. But if you're a history buff, or a collector, then I guess the legacy vintage stuff has value? Not for me.

 

[humbuckaroo]

Having owned some old gear when it was new, and having bought since some good condition vintage amps and cabs, for me I definitely prefer modern gear.

A Fender with sharp fretboard edges, wonky bridge and heavy a$$ tuners, with a Phillips truss rod adjuster, for 2-10x the price of a new Fender, regardless of country of manufacture? Nope, no thanks. An amp head that weighs 100 Lbs and heats my room better than the baseboard radiators for 2-3x the price of a top of the line Class D head? Nope. A 410 cab that weighs 100 Lbs but smells like stale beer and male cat spray? No thank you sir. Combine those aspects with scratchy pots and either replaced speakers or speakers that need to be replaced, and it’s a big heeel no from me.

You're describing "vintage gear problems" and I'm largely in agreement. But I do like my new stuff to be built like the old stuff. Tube heads, class A/B solid state heads, analog pedals, etc.. I find myself allergic to menus, IRs, modelers that sound like shoeboxes, and so on.

 

[MtManiac]

You're describing "vintage gear problems" and I'm largely in agreement. But I do like my new stuff to be built like the old stuff. Tube heads, class A/B solid state heads, analog pedals, etc.. I find myself allergic to menus, IRs, modelers that sound like shoeboxes, and so on.

Well to be fair, this is the “Basses” forum.

 

[ra0ulduke]

I have a soft spot for vintage and collect original vinyl pressings and first editions of books. On the other hand, I've always been enthusiastic about progress. It's fascinating what's happened technically. In terms of music equipment that means my p-basses and modern amplifiers for everyday use (rehearsals, gigs). I'm not crazy enough to lug around ancient tube amps and heavy speaker cabinets. Yes, tubes have a special sound, but with modern preamps, you can get a sound that's almost exactly the same as the original. The audience doesn't notice the difference in a mix anyway. It's a different story at home. I wouldn't mind having an old B-15 in the living room.

 

[Bassdirty]

Vintage looks.

..Old?





(sorry, I thought we were supposed to finish the sentence).

 

[Ritter667]

I honestly don't care how old or new stuff is, if it sounds great it sounds great.

And less importantly if it looks great it looks great.

 

[Michedelic]

When I was 11 (1977), the Sunn Coliseum was my dream rig. But no one bothered to tell me that if you're going to use this rig you really need to be on a stage in an amphitheatre in front of 1000s of people because bedroom windows will not hold up to repeated use of this rig.

Funny you should mention that…

I haven’t blown them out yet. But it can vibrate the bed.

 

[Hawk620]

There's not a single bass rig I've owned prior to this that I would take over my Genzler rig. It's tonally superior and the entire rig; MG350 Combo and BA110-2-S2 extension cab, weighs 32 lbs. I've had bass heads that weighed 2x to 3x that.

I've owned some nice basses over the years but the overall quality of what's being produced now vs the price is better than any Fender bass from my past. Even some $300 basses are very playable and well built. The only exception would be made to order or custom shop models.

 

[Freight Train]

Amp-wise I like new old tech. Perfect example my Bassman 100T which is a tube amp from the future. 2-channel foot-switchable between vintage tube channel w/passive tone stack and modern channel with active eq w/sweep mids and tube overdrive w/blend. 100 watt all-tube power amp switchable to 25 watts for recording or silent record mode with no cab attached. Post-output transformer DI with cab sim, which means post-power tubes, which is where most of the tube glory happens. If you understand power tube biasing and how important that is, the 100T has auto-bias which not only biases the tubes correctly but allows under-biasing and over-biasing in 5 steps each way. With the Bassman 410 Neo cab I regularly use it on stages up to festival size and have never been underpowered. Doing a theater gig with it tonight. Yeah the head alone weighs 50 lbs. but it's hands down the best sounding rig I've ever owned. Plus I'm much more interested in my sound than my convenience.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Ironically, the bass of mine with the most modern technology is also my oldest: a Steinberger L-2 that I’ve owned since 1982.

Every other bass I own, while much newer, is essentially identical tech-wise to basses from the 60s or 70s.

 

[humbuckaroo]

Well to be fair, this is the “Basses” forum.

Everything I said applies to basses.

 

[MtManiac]

Everything I said applies to basses

Tube heads, class A/B solid state heads, analog pedals, etc.. I find myself allergic to menus, IRs, modelers that sound like shoeboxes, and so on.

Oh, ok. Carry on then.

 

[humbuckaroo]

Oh, ok. Carry on then.

Not sure what your problem is, but many people in this thread are talking about bass gear, not just basses, and the thread is called " Old Gear vs. Modern Bass Tech" not "Old Basses vs. Modern Basses". Surely you have better things to do than to die on this hill.

Have a great day!

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Old gear ROCKS!

 

[MtManiac]

Not sure what your problem is…Surely you have better things to do than to die on this hill.

And yet - here you still are, too! Happy holidays buckaroo.