Is it "wrong" to use a jazz technique for pizzicato, in orchestral playing, as opposed to other, more "classical" motion?
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Double Bass On pizzicato
- Thread starter Andy Mopley
- Start date
I asked a friend about this and the reason that there is a difference in jazz pizzicato and classical pizzicato is that classical bassists have to accommodate holding the bow while they do so.
IME the pizz sound that a conductor wants is usually more round and less defined than the typical jazz pizz. I've been taught to do it higher up on the string and with my finger slightly sliding down the string: The following video gives some examples:
Yes, it's wrong. Orchestral pizz is that and jazz pizz is something else, but if you're in a community orchestra and some players only know jazz pizz, then I guess that's what they do as long as the conductor and the section leader are OK with it. At the end of the day, it's those two people who decide.
-S-
Andy said, Steve, doesn't it come down to the sound you make, irrespective of this particular technique?"
I agree with that statement - but the two different techniques make two different sounds! That's the point of having different techniques in the first place.
Although I am far from expert on the subject, there is more than one orchestral pizz, and more than one jazz pizz, too. I've played contemporary classical pieces with "snap pizz", and there's slap bass (and, I'm sure, other things I don't know about) on the non-classical side.
One could try to make different sounds using the same technique, but why? I would start with the requested technique and then refine the sound from there because life's hard enough without trying to make one thing sound like another when you don't have to.
Hey, maybe no one knows the difference and it really doesn't matter in your particular situation, but it would matter to me even if no one else knew.
Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
-S-
I agree with that statement - but the two different techniques make two different sounds! That's the point of having different techniques in the first place.
Although I am far from expert on the subject, there is more than one orchestral pizz, and more than one jazz pizz, too. I've played contemporary classical pieces with "snap pizz", and there's slap bass (and, I'm sure, other things I don't know about) on the non-classical side.
One could try to make different sounds using the same technique, but why? I would start with the requested technique and then refine the sound from there because life's hard enough without trying to make one thing sound like another when you don't have to.
Hey, maybe no one knows the difference and it really doesn't matter in your particular situation, but it would matter to me even if no one else knew.
Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
-S-
I'm with Steve on this, Orchestra pizz technique exists for practical and tonal reasons, and the technique gets the sound usually expected. And there are variations of sound that can be gotten within that technique. The same can se said for Jazz pizz technique.
I occasionally have to ask my section mates to embrace the traditional orchestra technique for the same reasons as I have to set bowings and more rarely fingerings - to try to ensure that the effect our conductor is expecting is achieved and to help ensure that the sections speaks as one. (We are a community orchestra, and some of our section members are students in the music program of the college. Some of them come in without much actual double bass experience (being bass guitar players) and most of them leave us, once their two-year programs are done.
I occasionally have to ask my section mates to embrace the traditional orchestra technique for the same reasons as I have to set bowings and more rarely fingerings - to try to ensure that the effect our conductor is expecting is achieved and to help ensure that the sections speaks as one. (We are a community orchestra, and some of our section members are students in the music program of the college. Some of them come in without much actual double bass experience (being bass guitar players) and most of them leave us, once their two-year programs are done.
Different musical situations can call for different tonal considerations and pizz techniques that colour the music appropriately. If its perfect for the musical context, then it makes musical sense.
The tenderness of playing with the fleshy part of the thumb halfway up the string - perfect in those exposed pianissimo parts, the precision of timing and string release on faster passages plucking with the finger tip(s), the more rounded sound with a little bit of flesh to the side of the finger , playing with a lot of flesh on the side and a slower release, the Bartok pizz, two fingered digging in thumping it out and playing loud, pulling the string up rather than rolling sideways for a dotted pizz note, damping with the left hand, adjusting the playing point etc. Theres lots of musical sounds to play with - but in a section there needs to be consistency of approach and one tonal pursuit which I think is perhaps what was behind your original question Andy?
The tenderness of playing with the fleshy part of the thumb halfway up the string - perfect in those exposed pianissimo parts, the precision of timing and string release on faster passages plucking with the finger tip(s), the more rounded sound with a little bit of flesh to the side of the finger , playing with a lot of flesh on the side and a slower release, the Bartok pizz, two fingered digging in thumping it out and playing loud, pulling the string up rather than rolling sideways for a dotted pizz note, damping with the left hand, adjusting the playing point etc. Theres lots of musical sounds to play with - but in a section there needs to be consistency of approach and one tonal pursuit which I think is perhaps what was behind your original question Andy?
