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Once more on Hartke LH500 limits...

Jun 5, 2008
139
108
SRB
Hi.... LH500 owner here... Looking for other users experiences in terms of limits of this amp... Did you managed to push it to overdrive and at what volume? What is your experience, how eq section affects reaching the overdrive?

To me, this master volume seems to act in extreme logarithmic manner. Bedroom volume up to 4, quite stage 5, loud stage 6. At 7 it start to get messy and driven. All when bass is 5 to 6 and mids going from 6 to 8. If I cut EQ, I can push the volume bit more, but essentially bass/low mid register is staying at same volume that way. (I am aware of whole 3-10-2 tone stack rule)

So basically it is extremely limited with live performance settings. At least when using one 15"/8Ohm box. Or is it just problem with one i got?
 
Hi.... LH500 owner here... Looking for other users experiences in terms of limits of this amp... Did you managed to push it to overdrive and at what volume? What is your experience, how eq section affects reaching the overdrive?

To me, this master volume seems to act in extreme logarithmic manner. Bedroom volume up to 4, quite stage 5, loud stage 6. At 7 it start to get messy and driven. All when bass is 5 to 6 and mids going from 6 to 8. If I cut EQ, I can push the volume bit more, but essentially bass/low mid register is staying at same volume that way. (I am aware of whole 3-10-2 tone stack rule)

So basically it is extremely limited with live performance settings. At least when using one 15"/8Ohm box. Or is it just problem with one i got?
My LH500 was a workhorse. I had no problem filling the room playing in a loud band inside or outside, especially with twin 12's. I pushed it till the limiter light lit. Never had a problem.
bass rig.jpg
 
LH500 is very loud and clean amp, I play loud and never pushed mine into overdrive. Problem could be your cab or the preamp tube, try adding one more identical cab to yours and see how it goes.

Already replaced the original tube with new aftermarket JJ electronic.

It behaves the same way on both 15"/8ohm/400w cabs I have.
 
I just did the test with all 3 tubes I got. One of them is Sovtek which came originally with the amp. It acts the same way as JJ. Best headroom seems to be with old Ei Yugoslavia, but it is still sounds oversaturated with master volume around 7.
 
To me, this master volume seems to act in extreme logarithmic manner. Bedroom volume up to 4, quite stage 5, loud stage 6. At 7 it start to get messy and driven.

that's normal for most amps, as most of them don't have a linear volume control. some folks say that's marketing, as this kind of control gives impression of being a more powerful amp. but yeah, it's somewhat common for amps not to have much volume beyond 1 o'clock.

exceptions exist, out of my head that's Mesa, Phil Jones and Quilter who have a linear volume control. maybe some others. google for 'bass block 800' to see how a linear volume control would act, as the bass block is labeled by watts, so it's very helpful.

please note two more things:
1. you need different EQ with different volume. it's normal, it's how physics work
2. likely the weak link is your cab. at 1 o'clock the amp is already pretty maxed out, and, well, 350W is more than a common single 15" can handle.

so if you want more volume, either:
1. add a second cab
2. replace a cab with one with better sensitivity and rating. and yeah, get a second in case you'd want to go louder
 
When I use my Harte 3500 outside With 2 generic 8ohm 15s, it breaks up with the master on 2. I assumed it was the speakers. I've tried different volumes on the bass and amp and the 2 preamps and it doesn't help. I'm thinking of trying to wire the speakers in series for 16 ohms which should drop the amperage and volume. I need to do more research to make sure I don't blow it up.
 
Hi.... LH500 owner here... Looking for other users experiences in terms of limits of this amp... Did you managed to push it to overdrive and at what volume? What is your experience, how eq section affects reaching the overdrive?

To me, this master volume seems to act in extreme logarithmic manner. Bedroom volume up to 4, quite stage 5, loud stage 6. At 7 it start to get messy and driven. All when bass is 5 to 6 and mids going from 6 to 8. If I cut EQ, I can push the volume bit more, but essentially bass/low mid register is staying at same volume that way. (I am aware of whole 3-10-2 tone stack rule)

So basically it is extremely limited with live performance settings. At least when using one 15"/8Ohm box. Or is it just problem with one i got?

Have you thought about looking at your cab situation? At an 8ohm load, you are getting 350 watts of power out of your LH500, which into a a fairly efficient cab will cover a lot of situations volume wise. I have a WD-800 set at a 2ohms but when powering an 8 ohm cab puts out 300 watts, and it is more than enough dBs out of my 210 Eden cab to work in a 11 piece horn/vocal band.
 
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When I use my Harte 3500 outside With 2 generic 8ohm 15s, it breaks up with the master on 2. I assumed it was the speakers. I've tried different volumes on the bass and amp and the 2 preamps and it doesn't help. I'm thinking of trying to wire the speakers in series for 16 ohms which should drop the amperage and volume. I need to do more research to make sure I don't blow it up.

I'm not sure that I'm following exactly.

When you say that you've tried "different volumes on the bass and amp and the two preamps," do you mean that you kept the overall volume out of the cabs about the same but changed the gain-staging (more master volume with less preamp volume, or vice-versa) or that, even at low playing volumes, you're getting that distortion (which you figure is from the cabs)?

Can you try the cabs with a different amp -- or the amp with different cabs? Do you get the same distortion when you try the amp with each cab individually?

Are you able to check the signal from the DI (pre- and post-EQ) to see if you're getting distortion there? You could record it or route it to another amp, powered speaker, mixer, monitor, headphones...

Particularly if you have an active bass, is it possible that you're getting some distortion from there? I once spent time with a cab builder, chasing down what I thought was a woofer farting-out when I hit a hard low "E" -- sounded like it, but turned out to be a waning 9-volt letting down my active EMGs (put in a new battery and, like magic, the speaker wasn't "farting out" anymore -- the clue was that the "farting" happened at the same level of attack when the amp was turned down as when it was turned up).

I'm not that familiar with Hartke amps -- and I don't know the power-handling or condition of your cabs -- but the HA 3500 is rated for 350 W @ 4 Ohms and 250 W @ 8 Ohms. Into 16 Ohms, you might only get 125, 150 watts -- I'd doubt much more than that.

If there's a problem with your amp, running into 16 Ohms is unlikely to fix it and, if you're simply overpowering your cabs, couldn't you just turn the volume down? (Again, I'm not entirely clear as to whether you're only getting distortion when you push the cabs to a certain level or at low volumes, too.)

If the speakers in your cabs are damaged -- or if the cabs are simply insufficient to handle your volume wants -- that'd be worth finding out. Depending on the cabs and drivers (and your EQ and the voicing of your amp), 350 watts into two 15s could be no big deal or more than they can comfortably handle. Either way, I don't know that series wiring would offer you a meaningful advantage over simply turning your amp down (and maybe reducing bass EQ or contour).

If you do look into series wiring (which wouldn't be my first resort), I gather from various reading on here that you only want to do it with identical drivers and cabs, as doing so with different cabs can introduce electrical weirdness that you don't encounter with parallel wiring.

Don't know if that helps -- I hope it does! Good luck!
 
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Hi.... LH500 owner here... Looking for other users experiences in terms of limits of this amp... Did you managed to push it to overdrive and at what volume? What is your experience, how eq section affects reaching the overdrive?

To me, this master volume seems to act in extreme logarithmic manner. Bedroom volume up to 4, quite stage 5, loud stage 6. At 7 it start to get messy and driven. All when bass is 5 to 6 and mids going from 6 to 8. If I cut EQ, I can push the volume bit more, but essentially bass/low mid register is staying at same volume that way. (I am aware of whole 3-10-2 tone stack rule)

So basically it is extremely limited with live performance settings. At least when using one 15"/8Ohm box. Or is it just problem with one i got?

I've wondered, when I've encountered an amp with what seems to be a pretty narrow usable range on the Master Volume control, whether one could simply swap out the potentiometer in question for one with a more gradual sweep.

I get the impression, though, that it's different with amps (a lot of them, anyway) than with passive (or even active) basses -- that there's not this vast array of electrically suitable parts that you can swap out, that some of them might be harder to replace, and that (at least in some amps) there might be more to the pot than a simple pot.

Is this accurate, or am I imagining that? Can I go to a tech (at least in some -- many? -- cases) and say, "I like this amp but don't like how the master volume feels like an on/off switch -- can we replace it with something more gradual?"

Appreciate any light folks can shed on this (and apologies for any derail).
 
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I've wondered, when I've encountered an amp with what seems to be a pretty narrow usable range on the Master Volume control, whether one could simply swap out the potentiometer in question for one with a more gradual sweep.

I get the impression, though, that it's different with amps (a lot of them, anyway) than with passive (or even active) basses -- that there's not this vast array of electrically suitable parts that you can swap out, that some of them might be harder to replace, and that (at least in some amps) there might be more to the pot than a simple pot.

Is this accurate, or am I imagining that? Can I go to a tech (at least in some -- many? -- cases) and say, "I like this amp but don't like how the master volume feels like an on/off switch -- can we replace it with something more gradual?"

Appreciate any light folks can shed on this (and apologies for any derail).
It depends very much on the circuit it’s being used in. The way the control works is based on the taper of the control and how it’s used.
 
Have you thought about looking at your cab situation? At an 8ohm load, you are getting 350 watts of power out of your LH500, which into a a fairly efficient cab will cover a lot of situations volume wise. I have a WD-800 set at a 2ohms but when powering an 8 ohm cab puts out 300 watts, and it is more than enough dBs out of my 210 Eden cab to work in a 11 piece horn/vocal band.

Have you used passive or active input? I'm constantly using active since my G&L is overdriving most preamps even with preamp switched off. And now I'm think this might be the cause of different experiences with volume control. I'll definitely need to try it with good ol' passive fender...
 
If you are using the graphic eq on the 3500, you have to be very careful with the 30hz fader! In my experience, there is nothing there that is usable, ie mud. That said, boosting that frequency will pull a lot of power from the amp to reproduce and my be causing what you are hearing.
Fishheadjoe
 
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Have you used passive or active input? I'm constantly using active since my G&L is overdriving most preamps even with preamp switched off. And now I'm think this might be the cause of different experiences with volume control. I'll definitely need to try it with good ol' passive fender...

Not really. I play a a passive PB most of the time. But I also have an active Warwick. In that case, it has a master volume knob so no real need for the cut pad.

However, your G&L is smoking hot gain wise for sure and can understand you having issues with it. I’m not sure what the cut is on the active input (you will not hurt anything using it with a passive bass), and you may still not have enough with that G&L.

Best wishes. hope you get it sorted out soon.
 
I run my L-1000 wide open but definitely have the pickup lower than any other bass I have. And play with a lot of dynamics to “ride” the breakup at will.

my wife turns the vol on her L-2000 to about 70% and stays cleanish through a V-4b.

I’d try adjusting the pu down and drop vol control until you get as clean as you want.

Oh yeah, no mater volume exists on the v-4b as it is a 70’s one.
 
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