One step brighter than Flatwounds for recording

[dbsfgyd1]

I currently have La Bella LTF-4A Flatwounds on my vintage Rickenbacker. I love soft, warm sound live through a bass amp, but not so much for home recording, where you have to consider how the mix sounds through smaller speakers. I end up trying to get more definition out of the bass post-recording through adding subtle distortion and boosting the highs, but the bass still sounds a little flat, lifeless, undefined, lost in a mix when translated to smaller speakers. In the hands of a skilled engineer, I suspect you can make any type of strings work. However, I am just a humble home recording dude.

I am thinking of switching strings, but I find many roundwounds too bright for my liking. Any suggestions for a type and brand of string that is a little brighter, richer mid/high timbre, than flatwounds but still retains most of their warmth and silky feel---in other words, a string sound somewhere between the usual round and flatwound types? Nickel-plated, tapedwound? What type and brand of strings would you suggest.

Full disclosure, I do not use flat wound strings.

I saw a video with a the bassist using tape wound strings that had that zing you are looking for.

One thing about the zing of round wounds, it is easily tamed by proper EQ. It is a much different EQ than what you would use with flat wounds. There is nothing you can do about the tactile feel however.

Good hunting!

 

[G On Bass]

I currently have La Bella LTF-4A Flatwounds on my vintage Rickenbacker. I love soft, warm sound live through a bass amp, but not so much for home recording, where you have to consider how the mix sounds through smaller speakers. I end up trying to get more definition out of the bass post-recording through adding subtle distortion and boosting the highs, but the bass still sounds a little flat, lifeless, undefined, lost in a mix when translated to smaller speakers. In the hands of a skilled engineer, I suspect you can make any type of strings work. However, I am just a humble home recording dude.

I am thinking of switching strings, but I find many roundwounds too bright for my liking. Any suggestions for a type and brand of string that is a little brighter, richer mid/high timbre, than flatwounds but still retains most of their warmth and silky feel---in other words, a string sound somewhere between the usual round and flatwound types? Nickel-plated, tapedwound? What type and brand of strings would you suggest.

If yoo go to the Sadowsky flats, you'll have the the same feel and vibe vibe as the LaBellas but with more brightness. That was my experience. Great strings those Sadowsky flats. If I owned a 4 string those would be what I used.

 

[Shorelinegold]

I find EB Cobalt Flats and Fender Flats to be a bit sticky and not necessarily a musical brightness. When I use flats I like Chromes better.

But the real solution overall is GHS Pressurewounds. They are not only the best of both worlds but just a great sound on their own. If I'm using one bass to cover all situations, then I go with Pressurewounds and don't look back.

 

[Texican]

Just to give you even more contradictory recommendations (which prove that you’ll have to take this journey on your own) I dislike Chromes, HATE Rotosound flats, LOVE Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats, kind of love Ernie Ball Group II Flats, and also love Dunlop flats. I like Labella Deep Talkin’ Flats after a long break in period. Thought I would love GHS pressurewounds but they were just a little “meh” in every department.

So yeah, there is no right answer. But I would recommend the EB Cobalt flats for your specific needs.

 

[brianrost]

a string sound somewhere between the usual round and flatwound types?

They've been making "half-rounds" since the 1970s. Sometimes called "groundwound" or even (doh) "bright flats".

We'll all be playing them again once the flatwounds on short scales fad has ended

If you want definition when mixing bass you shouldn't boost the highs but the mids. I would try somewhere between 700Hz to 1.5kHz for definition.

Oh no, you have just revealed the super-top-secret behind the in-your-face punk rock bass sound

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I currently have La Bella LTF-4A Flatwounds on my vintage Rickenbacker. I love soft, warm sound live through a bass amp, but not so much for home recording, where you have to consider how the mix sounds through smaller speakers. I end up trying to get more definition out of the bass post-recording through adding subtle distortion and boosting the highs, but the bass still sounds a little flat, lifeless, undefined, lost in a mix when translated to smaller speakers. In the hands of a skilled engineer, I suspect you can make any type of strings work. However, I am just a humble home recording dude.

I am thinking of switching strings, but I find many roundwounds too bright for my liking. Any suggestions for a type and brand of string that is a little brighter, richer mid/high timbre, than flatwounds but still retains most of their warmth and silky feel---in other words, a string sound somewhere between the usual round and flatwound types? Nickel-plated, tapedwound? What type and brand of strings would you suggest.

They are rounds, but TI Jazz Rounds may work. But I'd go to the Cobalts as a first option.

 

[michael_t]

To the OP, @Sam Miller ...

Reading through this thread, I've noticed more than a few people have recommended GHS Pressurewounds, which I now use on both of my Fenders (P & J).

A couple of words of caution, though, in case you decide to give them a try...

1. The Pressurewounds are what I would call "semi-rounds" and as such their basic tonal character is more "roundwound" than "flatwound". This means they're a little more than "one step brighter" than the La Bella LTF's you're used to. The responsiveness of Alloy 52 (nickel-iron) can also be a lot more "forward" compared to traditional stainless steel flats. The EB Cobalt Flats, also mentioned quite a few times in this thread, have their own unique tonal character due to the "forward" nature of the Cobalt alloy, but not quite as "roundwound-ish" as the Pressurewounds once worn in.
   
2. They're hex-core and slightly stiffer than typical rounds. If I were you, I would try the light set (40-54-76-96) in order to stay closer to the overall feel of the LB LTF's in terms of stiffness/flexibility. That's the exact set that's on my P bass now and I love their comfortable feel without ever being floppy.

 

[ed woodsworth]

I've used half wound on my rick before. That should achieve what you're looking for.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Thanks for the EQ tips and suggestion for TI Jazz Flats. I do mix in context, as well as solo, so I can hear what I am doing to the bass. I assume one advantage with going with a roundwound is that it is easier to dial back the mid/highs then to add them later in the mix. I assume you are not a fan of EB Colbalt strings?

I haven't actually tried the EB Cobalts but from clips I've listened to they seem to be in that category of "flats with added metallic clank" that I'm not a fan of. If I want that kind of brightness I'd rather use roundwounds than bright flats or any pressurewound, ground wound, etc. Strings that try to be "best of both worlds" always end up as "worst of both worlds" for my taste. But like I said: I haven't actually tried the Cobalts so take my opinion on these with a HUGE grain of salt or better still: disregard it completely.

Also, I tend to like mellow sounding strings which may or may not be what YOU need. Anything above approx.3kHz is just string noise without tone to me but some genres call for a brighter, metallic/clanky sounding bass of course. I prefer non-metallic sounding flats and mellow sounding rounds which mostly means pure nickels. There are a couple of exceptions though. I actually love stainless steel Rotosound 66 Swing Bass which may seem strange when I prefer mellow strings. But I love them when they're broken in (which would mean "dead" to anyone who likes Roto66 for their signature brightness). Broken in Roto 66 steels = wonderful warm midrange presence unlike any other strings out there. And luckily for me they break in (or go dead...) really fast.

 

[Texican]

I haven't actually tried the EB Cobalts but from clips I've listened to they seem to be in that category of "flats with added metallic clank" that I'm not a fan of. If I want that kind of brightness I'd rather use roundwounds than bright flats or any pressurewound, ground wound, etc. Strings that try to be "best of both worlds" always end up as "worst of both worlds" for my taste. But like I said: I haven't actually tried the Cobalts so take my opinion on these with a HUGE grain of salt or better still: disregard it completely.

Also, I tend to like mellow sounding strings which may or may not be what YOU need. Anything above approx.3kHz is just string noise without tone to me but some genres call for a brighter, metallic/clanky sounding bass of course. I prefer non-metallic sounding flats and mellow sounding rounds which mostly means pure nickels. There are a couple of exceptions though. I actually love stainless steel Rotosound 66 Swing Bass which may seem strange when I prefer mellow strings. But I love them when they're broken in (which would mean "dead" to anyone who likes Roto66 for their signature brightness). Broken in Roto 66 steels = wonderful warm midrange presence unlike any other strings out there. And luckily for me they break in (or go dead...) really fast.

The cobalts aren’t clanky at all. And mine aren’t even broken in yet.

I do agree with you about the futility of a “best of both worlds” attempt at string making.

 

[Doug4321]

Rick Beato said to bump up the eq at 300 Hz to get heard through small speakers. EQ tone below is more inaudible of course. Like AM car radio. Hey, you could try “tic tac” bass. Like those old western songs for cheap truck radios. They used baritone guitars and a pick and double the bass line.

I love those La Bella LTF strings. In my mind, with flats, you want that kind of plunky sound, rather than a metallic growl. See Sean Hurley vid below, he’s using La Bella I heard. Excellent.
However, if you want low tension flexible flats with more metallic growl, I found Dunlops flats, 40-100 have that, also Pyramids. Dunlops are super smooth with great E string flexibility and intonation. Pyramids are more nubbly and I think more warm, compared to the Dunlop. I suppose they all go dark eventually.

 

[Doug4321]

Tic tac bass?

 

[Sam Miller]

Rick Beato said to bump up the eq at 300 Hz to get heard through small speakers. EQ tone below is more inaudible of course. Like AM car radio. Hey, you could try “tic tac” bass. Like those old western songs for cheap truck radios. They used baritone guitars and a pick and double the bass line.

I love those La Bella LTF strings. In my mind, with flats, you want that kind of plunky sound, rather than a metallic growl. See Sean Hurley vid below, he’s using La Bella I heard. Excellent.
However, if you want low tension flexible flats with more metallic growl, I found Dunlops flats, 40-100 have that, also Pyramids. Dunlops are super smooth with great E string flexibility and intonation. Pyramids are more nubbly and I think more warm, compared to the Dunlop. I suppose they all go dark eventually.

In this video, Sean Hurley demonstrates a beautiful flatwound tone with his bass. He's got that deep plunky sound with a bit of character on top, inspiring. I'll check him out on Scotts Bass, which I haven't visited for some time.

 

[Sam Miller]

I took advantage of Positive Grid's Bias 2 Amp vst sale, which ends today, and got myself a decent bass amp simulator. Adding this bass amp simulator helps bring out more upper character to the tone. Previously, I was recording into Ableton directly via my Focusrite audio interface through a little Presonus tube preamp. A while ago, one of my pickups was rewound hotter. I am wondering if that made it more responsive to lower frequencies and less to mid/highs. Without going through the Bias 2 Amp simulator, the bass tone sounds overly strong on the fundamental frequencies and weak on the upper-end timbre, even with the neck pickup off and playing near the bridge, compared to Sean Hurley's flatwound PBass tone. Sean Hurley is likely playing though an expensive amp such as the B15n Ampeg, which also makes a difference. I do look forward to experimenting with a new set of different strings in the near future. Thanks again everyone for the wealth of suggestions and tips

 

[Greenstreet]

Started playing bass in 1965 with flats. However, when I bought my '82 Jazz in 1985 it had round wounds on it and I continued to use round wounds on it for ~32-years.

Then in 2017, I bought a set of LaBella White Tape Wound strings. They feel a little more slippery than my previous flat wounds (60's and 70's) but I got used to that pretty quick. They are better balanced in sound from string to string, which I really like. But I bought them because I had seen a string comparison on SBL when he had some black ones and they were quite a bit brighter than whatever flats he had on.

I bought the white ones (semi-transparent white) because I have a white bass and I thought it would look better. I LOVE these strings. LaBella makes them in Black, white over copper core, white over gold core, and white (white over silver core). The white ones are the brightest and they record just great. The black ones are the darkest, while still being brighter than "normal" flats, and the other two are in between those two choices. If you like the feel of flatwounds but want a brighter sound, I think you'll be pleased with the LaBella Deep Talking Bass Tape Wound Strings.

^ This. Tape-wound strings are actually round wound strings with a nylon tape over-wind. Black tapes will be brighter than flats, and white tapes will be a little brighter still.

When recording, remember that EQ is a subtractive process- you can dial back frequencies, but you can't add frequencies that aren't already there in the original signal.

I personally don't care for the feel of ground-wound strings. They can feel a bit toothy, especially coming from flats.

 

[Sam Miller]

^ This. Tape-wound strings are actually round wound strings with a nylon tape over-wind. Black tapes will be brighter than flats, and white tapes will be a little brighter still.

When recording, remember that EQ is a subtractive process- you can dial back frequencies, but you can't add frequencies that aren't already there in the original signal.

I personally don't care for the feel of ground-wound strings. They can feel a bit toothy, especially coming from flats.

I am going to aim for something a little brighter than I stated in my original post. I suspect the inherent sound of my Rec, with its unique pickup setup is on the darker side, meaning that mid/highs are a bit low to start with. At this point, I am leaning towards either white tapewounds, EB colbalts, or pressurewound. At my local music shop, the tapewounds are almost twice the cost, $63ish CAD, compared to $33 for the cobalts and a little more for pressurewound. Their isn't much selection of La Bella strings in Canada. Looks like if I want the white tapewounds I would have to order from the states.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

^ This. Tape-wound strings are actually round wound strings with a nylon tape over-wind. Black tapes will be brighter than flats, and white tapes will be a little brighter still.

When recording, remember that EQ is a subtractive process- you can dial back frequencies, but you can't add frequencies that aren't already there in the original signal.

I personally don't care for the feel of ground-wound strings. They can feel a bit toothy, especially coming from flats.

Are you referring to "Tape Wounds" on your reference to "ground-wound strings? If so, they are not "toothy" at all. The are smoother than the flats I've used. And I have used them for about 3-years. It that's not what you are referring to then I apologize for the mis-understanding.

Your note about EQ subtractive process is pretty true in that you can't add something that isn't already in the tone. It's always easier to start with brighter and tame it than try to find some brightness that isn't there.

 

[gbass312]

I currently have La Bella LTF-4A Flatwounds on my vintage Rickenbacker. I love soft, warm sound live through a bass amp, but not so much for home recording, where you have to consider how the mix sounds through smaller speakers. I end up trying to get more definition out of the bass post-recording through adding subtle distortion and boosting the highs, but the bass still sounds a little flat, lifeless, undefined, lost in a mix when translated to smaller speakers. In the hands of a skilled engineer, I suspect you can make any type of strings work. However, I am just a humble home recording dude.

I am thinking of switching strings, but I find many roundwounds too bright for my liking. Any suggestions for a type and brand of string that is a little brighter, richer mid/high timbre, than flatwounds but still retains most of their warmth and silky feel---in other words, a string sound somewhere between the usual round and flatwound types? Nickel-plated, tapedwound? What type and brand of strings would you suggest.

Just had this same debate with myself. For flats I love GHS precision flats. A round wound string with considering are DR Sunbeams. I use them
On my jazz and they sound great. They are easy to play but add just a bit more growl and mid. As far as recording, just recorded in the studio with my GHS precision flats on a 70s P bass and added heavy gain on the amp, plus post distortion in the mix and the flats shine. Great technique to get bass to cut through mixes and be heard on iPhones, which is unfortunately where a lot of people listen to commercially recorded music. Let the bass be heard

 

[Jeff Scott]

Chromes. I used them on my Ricks for years, a Super Soft set with the .060 D string replaced with a .055. Give them a try, but keep in mind they will break-in, and some of the extra initial brightness will tone down some.

This recording is of Rare Blend doing a college radio show (WRUW) back in late '07. The audio quality is pretty good but there are some compression artifacts to put up with. I'm using my April '98 4001V63 here, played fingerstyle.

Download the file to get the complete song, it repeats just a part of it; the TB player chops it off.

"Miles to Go" Copyright © Rare Blend 2006 All rights reserved.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I was wrong about the strings used for that recording; they were TI Jazz Rounds.