Double Bass Onederwood Pickup update

[Don Kasper]

Contrary to the advice of the good folks at Underwood, I'm going to try my DIY One-Derwood single element pickup on tonite's gig. (Piano/Bass/Drums/Singer).
My usual pickup is a B-Band D-1 (single element only on the E side of the bridge.)
(Signal chain is "pickup - Fdeck preamp - Walter Woods Electacoustic - DIY Eminence 12" cabinet.)
I'll let you all know how this pickup performs - in the interest of "BassScience!"
We're on the 4th of 4 Saturday nites at the same venue, so (hopefully) I'll be able to A/B it with the previous 3 Saturdays.
FYI/TMI?

 

[Francois Blais]

Works great on some basses (like mine), and not on others.
Hope it works for you!

 

[Don Kasper]

Update:
Short Story - This single element Underwood sounds great on my bass. Running it almost flat at the WWoods - just rolled off a bit of the Treble. (I believe the Fdeck helps out a good deal - HPF and Phase, etc.)
It has a nice, more "compact" low-end response, compared to the B-Band, but is still full and round, and just a bit more mid-rangey, which works well on my darkish Juzek.
I have a few trio/quartet gigs in Feb where the keys will be electric Piano, so we'll see how this works in a slightly louder context & room.
Also - I used my own ($15.00?) DIY cable, not the "new" $180.00 Underwood cable!
If you've been disappointed using a 2-element Underwood in the past, I highly recommend trying only "1" element on the E side of the bridge.
IME/IMO.
Thanks.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Update:
Short Story - This single element Underwood sounds great on my bass. Running it almost flat at the WWoods - just rolled off a bit of the Treble. (I believe the Fdeck helps out a good deal - HPF and Phase, etc.)
It has a nice, more "compact" low-end response, compared to the B-Band, but is still full and round, and just a bit more mid-rangey, which works well on my darkish Juzek.
I have a few trio/quartet gigs in Feb where the keys will be electric Piano, so we'll see how this works in a slightly louder context & room.
Also - I used my own ($15.00?) DIY cable, not the "new" $180.00 Underwood cable!
If you've been disappointed using a 2-element Underwood in the past, I highly recommend trying only "1" element on the E side of the bridge.
IME/IMO.
Thanks.

I constructed a "Onederwood" or the "Don Kasper signature model" (as I like to call it) from a wrecked two banger. It works great!!
I also got a used older two element Underwood in the classifieds recently and it also works great, better in fact for me... however I believe the key to the Underwood is FIT!!!!. Slapping it in and complaining that it doesn't sound good is kinda weak. I used to poo poo the bridge wings but I'm becoming a believer.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

For the record, I use a $34 handbuilt cable but it does have high end ends.

 

[Don Kasper]

I constructed a "Onederwood" or the "Don Kasper signature model" (as I like to call it) from a wrecked two banger. It works great!!
I also got a used older two element Underwood in the classifieds recently and it also works great, better in fact for me... however I believe the key to the Underwood is FIT!!!!. Slapping it in and complaining that it doesn't sound good is kinda weak. I used to poo poo the bridge wings but I'm becoming a believer.

YES!
"FIT" is very important for the Underwood's performance. In my photo above, the shim is made up of "3" layers of printer paper - "2" layers were too loose..."4" layers were too tight.
And, I like to shim the bottom (bridge foot side) of the element - not the top, as the photo shows.
"Onederwood - Less IS More!!!"
Thanks!

 

[Ric Vice]

Seems to me you could just source a single element pickup like the KNB-1 Cremona, that sounds magnificent, check out Rick's recordings in the Acoustic Box II's thread, rather than dissassemble
a perfectly good Underwood. Just my take of course, different strokes for different folks. It's also a lot cheaper.

 

[Don Kasper]

Seems to me you could just source a single element pickup like the KNB-1 Cremona, that sounds magnificent, check out Rick's recordings in the Acoustic Box II's thread, rather than dissassemble
a perfectly good Underwood. Just my take of course, different strokes for different folks. It's also a lot cheaper.

Yes...But what about "2 for the price of 1!"
I now have a spare, as well.
...and I enjoy tinkering.
Folks/Strokes, indeed.
Thanks.

 

[Ric Vice]

Yes...But what about "2 for the price of 1!"
I now have a spare, as well.
...and I enjoy tinkering.
Folks/Strokes, indeed.
Thanks.

Enough said, so for all you folks with dual element Underwoods, get out those wire cutters and you have a spare pickup. Just don't tell his kids,
If you don't have one the KNB-1's definitely worth looking into.

 

[Francois Blais]

The thing is, it doesn't work better for some people, so cutting the pup will ruin it in some way.

 

[Ric Vice]

The thing is, it doesn't work better for some people, so cutting the pup will ruin it in some way.

I've always been of the opinion that if Don Underwood designed a pickup with two elements, than you should use it with that in mind. Apparently, some folks like it

better with a single element, so that's their choice, IMHO. It's been so long since I've used any kind of piezo, except the Ehrlund EAP that I have no desire to go that route agian.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

There is the Shadow SH-951 which is a single element bridge wing pickup and a SH-950 which has two elements of the same type.
The sensor elements might be a bit thicker than the elements of an Underwood, at least the prototype I bought used from another bassist has thicker elements.

 

[Ric Vice]

There is the Shadow SH-951 which is a single element bridge wing pickup and a SH-950 which has two elements of the same type.
The sensor elements might be a bit thicker than the elements of an Underwood, at least the prototype I bought used from another bassist has thicker elements.

I had one of the older Underwoods, and it was pretty thick, but I've never actually used a Shadow.

 

[MLysh]

Planet Wing pick-up. I use it and love it. Single element piezo, seated in the E side bridge wing. Kolstein's sells them.

 

[Ric Vice]

Planet Wing pick-up. I use it and love it. Single element piezo, seated in the E side bridge wing. Kolstein's sells them.

Agreed, it's very much like the KNB-1 Cremona, and sounds great with the proper EQ.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The point with the Shadow SH-95x is that you can get the same pickup elements as a single or double one. There are of course a lot of single element bridge wing pickups out there, but very few where you can get either a single or a double one for the bridge wings.

 

[Francois Blais]

There is the Shadow SH-951 which is a single element bridge wing pickup and a SH-950 which has two elements of the same type.
The sensor elements might be a bit thicker than the elements of an Underwood, at least the prototype I bought used from another bassist has thicker elements.

I have one, and it’s indeed thicker than a Underwood element.
It sounds nowhere as good as the Underwood though, and by a large margin.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I have one, and it’s indeed thicker than a Underwood element.
It sounds nowhere as good as the Underwood though, and by a large margin.

I never had an Underwood, just that prototype two element SH-950. I didn't like it for years, it sounded very compressed with a very tight fit. Many years later I removed just a little bit of wood with a file (just a few light strokes with a fine one), it just holds in place now without a shim but the sound was so much better, it was unbelievable. (At least for me at that time.)

So it might be very difficult to compare two bridge wing pickups, because the sound depends so much on the correct fit.
I'm pretty sure that Don Underwood put a lot more time in developing the Underwood pickup than the owner of Shadow might have put into the development of the SH-95x series of pickups, but that doesn't necessarily lead to a less good product. There is not that much variation possible in construction.

BTW, at that time I needed a two element pickup because the soundpost was too close to the bridge on my 5-string. After a luthier set the post a bit more south bowing was much better (even acoustically) and one element pickups worked then.

 

[Francois Blais]

I have put back my Shadow SH-951 and it indeed sounds great.
Not that much different from the Underwood single element.
I have changed my amplification setup since the last trial, and it made a huge difference.
The new setup is more neutral and transparent, so the comparison is more valuable.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I have put back my Shadow SH-951 and it indeed sounds great.
Not that much different from the Underwood single element.
I have changed my amplification setup since the last trial, and it made a huge difference.
The new setup is more neutral and transparent, so the comparison is more valuable.

Thanks for the report, Francois.
Is it possible that the amplifiers input impedance of your old setup was different from the new one or did you use the same preamp with your old and new amp setup?
I thought it might have something to do with the input impedance/pickup load.