Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance

[Doufuss]

I'm way late to the party here, and I have not read the entire thread, although I made it through a lot of this. I kind of wonder if Limeman is just seeing how long he can keep this thread going.

But, has anybody actually looked at the Musiccord "how it works" page - [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]?

Aside from the fact that they can't spell "frequency," the key to the Musiccord's success seems to be that it is a multistrand cable instead of a single conductor. According to them this helps with "elimination of phase distortion," and it helps to "retain the speed and increase current capacity." (As a side thought, can anyone explain what speed they are retaining? I don't understand that reference.)

Nay-sayers and true believers, assume for a moment that these claims are 100% true and that this has a noticeable and measurable effect on an audio device using this type of cable.

In fact, the MusicCord description seems to imply that more, smaller conductors working in unison is better. I always believed this to be true, since I thought electrons moved along the surface and multistrand cable has more surface area. (Is this correct?). The MusicCord cable uses 4 20gauge wires per conductor

The trouble is, I don't think I've ever seen a power cable that isn't made of multistrand wire. Have any of you? Even the cheapest computer cable is multistrand. I'm pretty sure my cheap computer power cable uses even more, even smaller gauge wires per conductor.

By MusicCords own claims, doesn't that make my cheap power cord better than their expensive one?

Late to the party, but you are exactly right. Snip open one of your $8 IEC cables, and you will find multistrand wire inside. They're made that way so they will flex, leaving less chance of failure. Here in North America, you get a nice supply of 15 Amp ~ 120 Volt power from the wall. The IEC cable supplied with your amp is plenty, and audioholics (once you get past the advertising) has plenty of hard data to support the fact that these esoteric cables are a ripoff of the highest order.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I always believed this to be true, since I thought electrons moved along the surface and multistrand cable has more surface area. (Is this correct?).

It is correct, at radio frequencies. It does not occur at frequencies within the bandwidth of audio, and it does not occur at 50/60 Hz, the frequency of AC supplies.
The mere mention of skin effect with respect to audio, especially AC supplies, is snake-oilery of the highest degree. It's like a car salesman trying to get you to pay more to add a spoiler to your new car for improved road holding. Of course, they don't mention that it only works above 120 MPH.

 

[wvbass]

Thanks, Bill.

I don't think ESP says anything about skin effect - that was my question. What ESP says is this "Smaller gauge conductors have less internal inductance and faster time constants, but do not have the required current capacity. Current flows faster, just not enough of it. Bu using multiple smaller conductors in paralled, you retain the speed and increase current capacity." That, to me, sounds like they are saying that my cheap power cable is going to be better than their expensive one.

 

[wvbass]

On the practical side, isn't the single-strand "oversized 12-gage Ground Conductor" (their spelling, not mine) going to have the likely effect of shortening the life of the cord? How many times can you roll it up, tug on it, and subject it to "normal cable abuse" before the ground breaks? Electricity aside, Isn't multistrand cable generally better suited (more durable) for cables that are not immobilized by a permanent installation?

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Thanks, Bill.

I don't think ESP says anything about skin effect ... What ESP says is this "Smaller gauge conductors have less internal inductance and faster time constants...

Same thing. And it's hogwash.

 

[wvbass]

Same thing. And it's hogwash.

Sure. I agree. It just seemed to me that their argument FOR their cable is actually an argument AGAINST their cable, if you actually believe what their shoveling.

 

[Lukejt]

You guys ready to claim the million dollar prize yet?

 

[lomo]

Whatever happened to the single blind test that someone here was talking about doing??

 

[ehque]

If this effect were true you might expect high power transmission lines would be vibrating. the earth being a big magnet, you expect these kila volt lines to be showing signs of vibration.

Just to clarify - no.

HT (High Tension) lines run on very high voltage but generally do not carry high current - the current is kept low so as to prevent the lines from heating up. Conversely the electromagnetic force on a current-carrying conductor in a magnetic field depends on the current and the strength of magnetic field - not the voltage.

tl;dr - high voltage lines have low current, therefore they will not vibrate

 

[Limeman]

Whatever happened to the single blind test that someone here was talking about doing??

That was me. Things have been particularly busy both with myself and also over at the studio, so we have had to reschedule to a date moving forward once we can sync up. I still plan to do a test and will let all the advocates and naysayers know what we find when I do.

 

[akaTRENT]

Hurry! This power cord and surge protector are on sale:

http://essentialsound.com/category/REF.html

I assume customers in Michigan have the privilege of adding sales tax.

I've already asked Tom Bowlus for a review in Bass Gear Magazine.

bahahhaha oh man, the things people spend money on...

 

[Rockbobmel]

These are my favorite snake oil charms. Imagine! My $50,000 stereo came to LIFE when these are installed properly!

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Now these "Brilliant Pins" will change your LIFE!!













.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

These are my favorite snake oil charms. Imagine! My $50,000 stereo came to LIFE when these are installed properly!

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

A less expensive option is to go to your local toy store and buy some marbles. I'm told by audiophools that they work almost as well. But they have the unfortunate property of rolling away. If that happens and as a result you've lost all your marbles then some Brilliant Pebbles are definitely for you.

 

[Rockbobmel]

A less expensive option is to go to your local toy store and buy some marbles. I'm told by audiophools that they work almost as well. But they have the unfortunate property of rolling away. If that happens and as a result you've lost all your marbles then some Brilliant Pebbles are definitely for you.

PERFECT!!!!! Bill

 

[Rockbobmel]

Hurry! This power cord and surge protector are on sale:

http://essentialsound.com/category/REF.html

I assume customers in Michigan have the privilege of adding sales tax.

I've already asked Tom Bowlus for a review in Bass Gear Magazine.

How can these @$$#0lz put their heads down on their $40,000 pillows at night!!:scowl:

 

[B-string]

I need to start selling my "Aqua River Stones" attach one to each speaker cab and rub generously before each gig. You'll be amazed at the smooth un-muddy lows and crystal clear mids and highs they will give you. Just read the "Customer Complai.......I mean Comments on theses $900.00 wonders of nature. Patent pending (waiting the patent office to do some real good drugs).

 

[Bassflute]

It is correct, at radio frequencies. It does not occur at frequencies within the bandwidth of audio, and it does not occur at 50/60 Hz, the frequency of AC supplies.
The mere mention of skin effect with respect to audio, especially AC supplies, is snake-oilery of the highest degree. It's like a car salesman trying to get you to pay more to add a spoiler to your new car for improved road holding. Of course, they don't mention that it only works above 120 MPH.

they work at all speeds, just to a lesser extent.

It's amazing how nasty some people get when something cannot be scientifically measured.

I still like my Power 3 cable from Virtual Dynamics that I won...and everyone that has tried it has heard a difference...and I'm a skeptic.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[lomo]

they work at all speeds, just to a lesser extent.

It's amazing how nasty some people get when something cannot be scientifically measured.



Cheers,
Cameron

Yes, a spoiler redirects air at 10mph, but to say that it "works" is simply flat wrong, unless you are trying to split semantic hairs in an effort to gain the upper hand in an argument, rather than find truth. It has no significant effect on anything at that speed, and therefore does not "work".

The nastiness you see is admittedly there (and hinders the discussion IMO), but is born out of the simple frustration of watching others believe in things that are either easily proven wrong (if tested properly and objectively) or are untestable but run in contradiction to other established and proven principles. Many are ready to accept logic every time they go to the hospital, plug in an appliance or start a car, but when the exact same principles that allow them to do those things contradict a belief that is dear to them, logic is sacrificed at the altar of "what I believe".

 

[Bassflute]

if you have a 40+ mph headwind...or if you are on ice...

And 'belief' is quite a powerful argument, even, sadly, today in politics.

Some people have 'proven' that all poweramps sound the same, and I KNOW that to be complete and total nonsense...

Cheers,
Cameron

Yes, a spoiler redirects air at 10mph, but to say that it "works" is simply flat wrong, unless you are trying to split semantic hairs in an effort to gain the upper hand in an argument, rather than find truth. It has no significant effect on anything at that speed, and therefore does not "work".

The nastiness you see is admittedly there (and hinders the discussion IMO), but is born out of the simple frustration of watching others believe in things that are either easily proven wrong (if tested properly and objectively) or are untestable but run in contradiction to other established and proven principles. Many are ready to accept logic every time they go to the hospital, plug in an appliance or start a car, but when the exact same principles that allow them to do those things contradict a belief that is dear to them, logic is sacrificed at the altar of "what I believe".

 

[lomo]

if you have a 40+ mph headwind...or if you are on ice...

Then I guess if you have a 40mph tailwind it's a dangerous mod?