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Only one effect pedal for metal music

#61
bassman1185 said:
Dude... Steve Harris is one of the more famous users of compression.
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Whoops, :o... I stand corrected.

I didn't knew that fact. I thought the tone only came from his fingers and his awesome P-bass, no other effects involved.

I never researched into his gear.

So, he really uses a compressor? :confused::confused:

Then I've been going all wrong about testing compressors.
So far I tested out a BOSS CS-3 (yeah, I know, not a great one), Ashdown Dual Compression and a expensive compressor rack effect (forgotten the brand, but it look cool, cool writting: white on a dark red backgroungd).
To me it always sounded not suitable for metal. Perhaps I didn't got proper guidance from someone who knows something about sound engineering.


This would explain off course that Steve is not superhuman and can't lift three times his own weight with his right index and middle finger. :)

Am I really wrong on the compressor issue?


EDIT: aah, the irony in my previous post:

C'thulhu said:
I advice to leave compression alone, unless you try it out and get to know it, and think you can use it.
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That applies to me more. :rolleyes:
Re-education time.
 
#62
C'thulu, I believe that Steve uses a CS-2 that may or may not have been modified. I could be wrong about that, but I know that compression is part of his tone.

Compression, like distortion, choruses, ring modulators, and clean tones, is very much a matter of opinion. I don't technically play metal (my current band is sort of post-hardcore) but it IS very aggressive and heavy and I use quite a lot of compression. It helps keep my volume consistant when I'm stomping on my pedals, and it adds a lot of punch. It works great for me, but if you don't like compression, then don't bother with it.

However, compression is one of the more difficult tone-shapers to set up effectively, so keep that in mind. Personally, I use a rackmounted Symetrix 501, which has lights to tell you how much the comp is reducing gain and when you're hitting the threshold of the compressor. That has helped me a lot; being able to "see" how the compressor is actually affecting my sound.
 
#63
bassman1185 said:
C'thulu, I believe that Steve uses a CS-2 that may or may not have been modified. I could be wrong about that, but I know that compression is part of his tone.

Compression, like distortion, choruses, ring modulators, and clean tones, is very much a matter of opinion. I don't technically play metal (my current band is sort of post-hardcore) but it IS very aggressive and heavy and I use quite a lot of compression. It helps keep my volume consistant when I'm stomping on my pedals, and it adds a lot of punch. It works great for me, but if you don't like compression, then don't bother with it.

However, compression is one of the more difficult tone-shapers to set up effectively, so keep that in mind. Personally, I use a rackmounted Symetrix 501, which has lights to tell you how much the comp is reducing gain and when you're hitting the threshold of the compressor. That has helped me a lot; being able to "see" how the compressor is actually affecting my sound.
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Thanks for the info my friend. ;)
And thanks for not making fun of my ignorance. :)

Now I will go back to that post and edit out that statement. :ninja: (Nah, I won't, I can take it if I'm being corrected.)
Using Steve Harris as an example kinda backfired my argument. :atoz:

So we must conclude: compression is very personal.
Perhaps not my cup of tea for my taste in sound.
If it works for you that's cool off course.

I'm gonna research into Harris's gear now.

Eh, after nine years at the bass, I'm still learning.
 
#68
One thing to point out about compression: While you will see metal bassists with compressors, it's often a safety tool against the spikes in their dynamic techniques. Full-fledged "squish" (heavy compression), on the other hand, is seldom heard in metal, AFAIK (that is, if you don't count amps being pushed into saturation, since overdrive and distortion do compress your tone).

Also, compressors are essential for recording, which is why studios have racks full of compressors. But live? That depends. The pros are always armed with them, though (but again, rarely as an "effect").
 
#69
Depends on the kind of metal you're playing.

In the death metal band I play in I use a Boss CS-3 compressor and the nine band EQ is basically set diagonally boosting bass and cutting treble. It works for me because I play finger style and the guitars aren't that bassy. So there's a reasonably warm tone that doesn't fight for attention but can be heard and felt.

In the doom band I play in there's a very small mid boost and then a Boss FZ-2 Hyperfuzz. Which quite frankly slays, but won't work if you're playing anything approaching 60 bpm+.

Specifying the sub genre would make it a lot easier to help you out. But as long as you have volume and tubes, I can't see how you'd go wrong.
 
#71
MysticBoo said:
One thing to point out about compression: While you will see metal bassists with compressors, it's often a safety tool against the spikes in their dynamic techniques. Full-fledged "squish" (heavy compression), on the other hand, is seldom heard in metal, AFAIK (that is, if you don't count amps being pushed into saturation, since overdrive and distortion do compress your tone).

Also, compressors are essential for recording, which is why studios have racks full of compressors. But live? That depends. The pros are always armed with them, though (but again, rarely as an "effect").
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That seems to explain it.
A compressor that cancels out the harshness in the sound. A compressor that squishes your sound would be a different kind of animal.
Perhaps I have not properly tried and had bad experiences with it because there was never a use for me as an amateur metal bassist.

I understand how a producer might apply these kind of effects.
 
#72
MysticBoo said:
:eyebrow:

I use a solid-state amp for metal. No tubes here. :smug:

Transistors can be METAL, too! :bassist:

...okay, so they're technically made with silicon, but you get my point. :p
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I don't like tubes either.

Too "warm" (srry, if I overuse this word) sounding for metal.
Natural overdrive doesn't do it for me.

A very powerfull solid-state amp with the gain fully open gives a more edgy sound suitable for metal.


Tubes are for rock. :hiding:
 
#74
Dapper_Bandit said:
But hey, your sound is your thing, my sound is my thing. It's all subjective.
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I was a bit sarcastic. (Hence the hiding smiley ;))

Let's agree on what you said: "your sound is your thing, my sound is my thing."
Whatever floats your boat.

I prefer solid state because I feel more emphasis of my playing techniques. I like my sound sterile and cold.
(But I'm weird off course, until proven otherwise... :))

I know some great metal bassists use tubes.

But, we're straying a bit off topic and off forum with this issue.


EDIT: and as much as I love Jason Newstead, I consider him about 75% rock, same for some other bassists you mention.
You can use any kind of amp off course. If you know what you're doing.
 
#76
MysticBoo said:
See, I DO like tubes.

I just like my solid-state amp more, for its flexibility and tone. I might have one of the heaviest SS amps in the industry (the GK 2001RB is 40 pounds!), but it's still only HALF of the weight of an SVT. :D
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Srry, didn't mean to put words in your mouth, that you hate tubes. ;)

Yeah, flexibility and tone. Like I said in a previous post. I think it lays more emphasis on your playing technique, which I think is very important for a metal bassist.
(my opinion)


Say Mystic, weren't you gonna post a sample of your EM for us? :)
Pretty please....
(Don't have to hassle off course.)
 
#78
C'thulhu said:
That seems to explain it. A compressor that cancels out the harshness in the sound. A compressor that squishes your sound would be a different kind of animal.
Perhaps I have not properly tried and had bad experiences with it because there was never a use for me as an amateur metal bassist.
I understand how a producer might apply these kind of effects.
Click to expand...

It might be worth your time to read through the compressor FAQ linked in my sig. Compressors are the #1 most-returned item at any music store's accessories counter, because almost nobody knows what they are really supposed to do, or how to use them properly, or what to expect from one compressor versus another. The result is that people buy them, get lousy-sounding results, and then take them back and announce on a web forum that compression suxx. ;)

It's a tricky balancing act first understanding compression, then understanding what to expect from a specific compressor, then making it fit into your rig with the right signal levels and placement in the signal chain. It's very easy to make a compressor sound bad. :D But a user who has taken the time and effort to educate themselves to a professional level, or who perhaps just hires a pro sound engineer, can get excellent results that would certainly benefit a metal mix.

And in fact even if a bassist doesn't use a compressor in their onstage rig, odds are they are being run through a compressor at the FOH mixer, whether they know it or not, or like it or not. So IMO the best thing is to either get technically familiar with compression, get the right comp for your needs, and then tell the soundman you've got it covered in your rig; or to forget it and leave it to them entirely.
 
#80
that valnott video is one of the funniest things i've ever seen. I play in a black metal band, and honestly, yeah, most of the tone is pretty much reverse scooped (mountain?) all mid, no low or high.

It most certainly does depend on what genre of metal you're playing. I use a big muff from the early 80s (sovtek) that works really really well for doom, "stoner", post-metal, black, and crust punk (not metal, but dflafadfklalk close). I never have a problem cutting through, you just have to dial it in properly on your amp. So i'm voting Big Muff (given that there's a huge disparity in speed here and the muff delivers!)
 

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