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Only the world's best CNC machines!

warrplayer

warrplayer

Apr 16, 2008
1,163
1,139
Charlotte, NC
#1
This line of ad copy from Warwick's new German Pro line caught my eye:

"Only the very best machines in the world are used to carve these extraordinaire bass guitars."

What a great idea. Now we can differentiate between the quality of various budget axes based on what brand of computer assisted carving machine was used to make them! Somebody start a database, and let's discuss the merits of various robotic luthiers!
 
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#3
warrplayer said:
This line of ad copy from Warwick's new German Pro line caught my eye:

"Only the very best machines in the world are used to carve these extraordinaire bass guitars."

What a great idea. Now we can differentiate between the quality of various budget axes based on what brand of computer assisted carving machine was used to make them! Somebody start a database, and let's discuss the merits of various robotic luthiers!
Click to expand...
The features of different types of CNC systems can vary, however. The most commonly used units in the industry are usually capable of 3 axis movement. As a result, their computer-controlled milling arms are capable of moving forward and backward, left and right, as well as up and down. This may be satisfactory for simple two-dimensional shapings. However, when it comes to more elaborate tasks, the capabilities of 3 axis CNC systems are quickly exceeded. We at Warwick and Framus use 5 axis CNC units, which represent the most modern wood processing technique in the industry. In addition to the X, Y and Z axes, 5 axis CNC processing units are capable of two additional degrees of orientation (represented by the B and C axis), which means that their milling arms can also be rotated in 3D space. This allows for the milling of markedly more complex pockets and structures in free space. The resulting increase in processing flexibility allows us to craft perfect instruments.

So, it's more a matter of being able to make diagonal cuts from a diagonal angle. I guess my 3-axis-shaped Yamaha neck is total garbage.
 
#5
Runnerman said:
Anything to attempt to gain an advantage in the market. Any tolerance differences in the machine are minuscule compared with tolerances in tooling, tooling design, properties of the material being cut and programming parameters such as speed and feed to name a few. We're talking guitar bodies here...not aircraft engine parts.
Click to expand...

Next ad: "Each of our bodies is crafted to aircraft engine part tolerances!"
 
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#7
placedesjardins said:
The features of different types of CNC systems can vary, however. The most commonly used units in the industry are usually capable of 3 axis movement. As a result, their computer-controlled milling arms are capable of moving forward and backward, left and right, as well as up and down. This may be satisfactory for simple two-dimensional shapings. However, when it comes to more elaborate tasks, the capabilities of 3 axis CNC systems are quickly exceeded. We at Warwick and Framus use 5 axis CNC units, which represent the most modern wood processing technique in the industry. In addition to the X, Y and Z axes, 5 axis CNC processing units are capable of two additional degrees of orientation (represented by the B and C axis), which means that their milling arms can also be rotated in 3D space. This allows for the milling of markedly more complex pockets and structures in free space. The resulting increase in processing flexibility allows us to craft perfect instruments.

So, it's more a matter of being able to make diagonal cuts from a diagonal angle. I guess my 3-axis-shaped Yamaha neck is total garbage.
Click to expand...
I don't think diagonal cuts is what the other 2 axes add per se, simply utilizing the forward/backward+left/right axes simultaneously would provide diagonal cuts, the 2 extra axes allow the cutter to rotate in space, meaning the cutter can rotate side to side and front to back while also moving along the already established axes. It's just more versatility, maybe it shouldn't be an advertising point, but I don't see any reason to make fun of Warwick for mentioning it, just as I don't see any reason to shun instruments that were made on a 3 axis machine. As long as the finished product is well constructed, who cares?
 
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#9
warrplayer said:
Next ad: "Each of our bodies is crafted to aircraft engine part tolerances!"
Click to expand...

Hey, do I recall Travis Bean ads boasting about their alloy necks made from aircraft-grade aluminum billets, and umpteen coats of clear aircraft lacquer? I think I do.

From now on, I'm using "aircraft grade" as my highest quality rating for everything. Wood, hardware, amps, rat fur, tolex, cables, etc......and of course.....TONE.

That's what I want...."aircraft-grade tone". Accept no substitutes!
 
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#14
hdracer said:
As a certified CNC programer and operator I can tell you that there is a big difference in tolerances between machines.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's true. However I'm wondering about the real advantage. I could well be missing something, but isn't Warwick just saying that the fancier machines allow them to employ fewer humans because the more accurate machines do more of the work?

I'm thinking it's like the Plek machines: they don't do better fretwork than talented humans, but they do it well enough to replace humans.
 
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#15
PWRL said:
I'd prefer something organic, myself, gnawed into shape by beavers.
Click to expand...
Beavers? Nope. Wrong kind of beavers anyway. The absolute best basses are never made on CNC even the highest end N-axis ones. The ONLY basses I"ll ever own are so high end they don't even have a name on the headstock. That is to keep them from becoming widely known by the rabble. They are TOTALLY organic! Swamp Ash, Alder and mahogany bass body blanks are shipped to the far North of Alaska where during the long winter months the women of a secret Inuit village gently chew the blanks into proper bass shapes. Their saliva passively soaks the wood resulting in a tone so unsurpassed that it takes a mortgage on your house to put a down payment on these basses. Even the rock stars that own them won't admit to it for fear of leaking out secrets.

I've said too much about this already!
 
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#17
hdracer said:
As a certified CNC programer and operator I can tell you that there is a big difference in tolerances between machines.
Click to expand...

Correct, although it is a loosing argument here.
I too have made some difficult parts with Solid Works on a Hauss multi-turret machine, the last big project was reed valve cages for racing 2-stroke Kawa 750's from the early 70'; very complex 4"x3" deep tapered cavities in 6061T6 alloy.
I've tried to explain to folks on this board that once a design is perfected, using CNC technology is the way to maintain perfection.
It's a lost cause as many believe that machines = evil and handmade = best.
These folks have also not attempted to make 100 of the same exact part holding tolerances to the 3rd or 4th decimal point.

hdracer, do you know if the PLEK machines can maintain anything close to the tolerances of a decent mill or lathe (either manual or CNC)?
I get the basics but have never seen one in use.
 
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#18
It helps them make the same product over and over holding the required tolerance with minimal issues.
It still requires people to operate the machines, making sure they are holding tolerance, changing tools
and adjusting offsets in the machine to keep the required tolerances. They will still require hand finishing to some extent, as well as final assembly. Not to mention engineers and programmers and possibly prototype to design new products and write the required programs.
 
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#19
bassbenj said:
Beavers? Nope. Wrong kind of beavers anyway. The absolute best basses are never made on CNC even the highest end N-axis ones. The ONLY basses I"ll ever own are so high end they don't even have a name on the headstock. That is to keep them from becoming widely known by the rabble. They are TOTALLY organic! Swamp Ash, Alder and mahogany bass body blanks are shipped to the far North of Alaska where during the long winder months the women of a secret Inuit village gently chew the blanks into proper bass shapes. Their saliva passively soaks the wood resulting in a tone so unsurpassed that it takes a mortgage on your house to put a down payment on these basses. Even the rock stars that own them won't admit to it for fear of leaking out secrets.

I've said too much about this already!
Click to expand...

Well it sounds like it's time to polish up the old snowshoes! I must find this village!
 
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#20
warrplayer said:
This line of ad copy from Warwick's new German Pro line caught my eye:

"Only the very best machines in the world are used to carve these extraordinaire bass guitars."

What a great idea. Now we can differentiate between the quality of various budget axes based on what brand of computer assisted carving machine was used to make them! Somebody start a database, and let's discuss the merits of various robotic luthiers!
Click to expand...
I'd still rather have a bass that's carved by a machine than by a person. Less prone to human error.
 
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