Opinion: setting "witness points" is bad advice

[Boneless]

I have read about setting witness points to improve intonation, all around strong vibration, etc.

My personal advice, after personal experimentation, is: not only do not bother, but it can actually be harmful.

With roundwounds, strings are probably flexible enough not to benefit at all. Or not enough to make a difference. Fact is, I have neither heard nor felt any discernible difference.

With flats, it can actually break them, especially the stiffer ones. I did it to a set of LaBella DTFs, and the result was that the E string especially went from bright (it's a new flat after all) yet precise to sounding like a wet noodle after doing it. Significantly darker, actually *worse* intonation, *worse* attack and sustain. While setting witness points, you could actually feel the string "creak" a bit. I obviously only set the witness points using my bare hands and some moderate pressure. Now an expensive set of strings is unusable.

Anyway, don't do it.

 

[gln1955]

My experience is that I've had a few instances where a string (usually the E) sounds weird, doesn't stay in tune or doesn't intonate well until I set the witness points at the bridge and nut. These were either flates or GHS Pressurewounds.

Do what you want, of course.

 

[Geri O]

"It's yo Strang...."

"Do Whatchoo wanna do...."

"I can't tell you...."

"What to witness to....."

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Actually...
We don't bend the string and make a witness point every time we fret a string and play a clean note, and it shouldn't be necessary at the nut and saddle either, but the ancient design and layout asks for excessive bends there.

There could be some truth in what the original poster says, but there's no ideal fix without a redesign. Taper core, even exposed core, would be a big improvement, but I don't see any Jamersons made like that.

While you're redesigning, straight-pull tuners, instead of what almost all of us have, would be nice. Thank you.

 

[Kyle_S]

I do feel nervous sometimes pushing the strings down to set witness points, but my intonation's gotten so much better since I started doing it.

 

[michael_t]

Setting witness points has made a positive difference for me both in terms of intonation and tuning stability. It works for me so I will continue doing it regardless of other people's opinions.

By the way, I first learned about witness points by watching a video by Scott's Bass Lessons.

 

[Zooberwerx]

From the Pro Bench...should be a prerequisite before approaching a set of strings:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/stringing-tuning-intonation-and-witnesses.1171141/

Riis

 

[Grinderman]

I can't speak for what anyone else does or how they do it but this has never been a cause of trouble here either with rounds or flats, including LaBella 0760M "1954 Originals".

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I’ve had multiple string sets through the years where the intonation of the larger diameter strings could not be adjusted within proper parameters until the witness point was set at the bridge saddle. You did title your post correctly as “opinion”, but it’s one with which I definitely do not agree.

 

[Discount Bassy]

String. Tune. Stretch 'em a wee bit. Tune. Set the witness points nut and bridge. Play and tune until they sound like they need a change or won't hold a tune. Repeat.

I cannot say how many times I have done this routine, but I would speculate in the realm of 150 repetitions without issue, from two years of weekly changes to many years of slightly more generous intervals. Granted: I am lucky.

 

[tindrum]

My experience is that I've had a few instances where a string (usually the E) sounds weird, doesn't stay in tune or doesn't intonate well until I set the witness points at the bridge and nut. These were either flates or GHS Pressurewounds.

Do what you want, of course.

Agreed. I’ve encountered it so many times that I’ve been doing it for years now with zero negative consequences.

 

[Yahboy]

I have read about setting witness points to improve intonation, all around strong vibration, etc.

My personal advice, after personal experimentation, is: not only do not bother, but it can actually be harmful.

With roundwounds, strings are probably flexible enough not to benefit at all. Or not enough to make a difference. Fact is, I have neither heard nor felt any discernible difference.

With flats, it can actually break them, especially the stiffer ones. I did it to a set of LaBella DTFs, and the result was that the E string especially went from bright (it's a new flat after all) yet precise to sounding like a wet noodle after doing it. Significantly darker, actually *worse* intonation, *worse* attack and sustain. While setting witness points, you could actually feel the string "creak" a bit. I obviously only set the witness points using my bare hands and some moderate pressure. Now an expensive set of strings is unusable.

Anyway, don't do it.

I only do witness point when i found intonation are hard to spot on. if not, witness point just make both E and B string sound different energy and clarity than the rest ! Sustain improve...... yes, but not that much that you think off.

Even i never meet the break issue on flatwound bass string, but witness point did on flatwound E string instantly give me muddy thuddy tone.

 

[HelpImaRock]

I have never set a witness point.

 

[Dan_reeves]

I have broken a Labella DTF setting a witness point like you mention, but only that string set and only that once. Otherwise, I do it and it’s been fine and positive. But I agree - be gentler with Labella’s - I think when I broke them I was just pushing way too hard. It doesn’t take much to set it correctly. Can be overdone.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The witness point will set itself over time, but you’ll encounter tuning instability until it is set. I help the string get there and have tuning stability from the time I change strings on.

 

[Chrisk-K]

I’ve been setting witness points on my basses and guitars over 20 years. I’ve been using both roundwound and flatwound strings. I've yet to damage a single string.

 

[Mili]

I only do that after all strings get stable and stay in tune. before that it can be harmful.

 

[faulknersj]

I always get a better setup (lower action) with witness points for my tastes.

It might not be for everyone but I have had new strings go from a not great setup to perfection after setting witness points…

 

[Element Zero]

Not saying your opinion is wrong, but if you heard the string make a creaking sound, you orobdbly pushed down too hard.

Never set witness points for 20 years, and never had an issue intonating my cheap Ibanez 5 string. Tried setting witness points on my nicer basses and didn’t really notice a difference. Went back to just stringing up, playing some slap, then doing a set up, slap some more, retune/adjust stuff, and done.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

You should set the witness points GENTLY! If you've broken strings when setting the witness points you are pressing FAR too hard on the strings!!!

Not setting the witness points at all is a very bad idea. The action will be higher (and the bass harder to play), the intonation will be off and the tone will suffer.

Of course you can adjust the action/intonation without setting the witness points, but the witness points will slowly "set themselves" over time when you play the bass, meaning the bass will gradually go out of intonation and the action will gradually get lower and introduce fret buzz. It's pretty much pointless do to a setup without first (GENTLY) setting the witness points.