How much force can you ever apply using just your thumb and index finger?
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Opinion: setting "witness points" is bad advice
- Thread starter Boneless
- Start date
That tells me that it is better to go with the natural bending of the string over time with use. After a while they will settle into their most natural state.
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It's not. For the reasons I explained in the post you quoted. But by all means, do whatever works for you.
Do whatever blows your dress up. If you set witness points, OK. If you don't, OK.
Half the woes we address in "Hardware & Repair" can be traced to improper / incomplete string installs with the all-too-frequent cry of "...they musta put the bridge in the wrong place!".
Riis
Riis
Turnaround
Commercial User
Not only tuning instability, but intonation instability too.
Turnaround
Commercial User
And in the meantime you will have inconsistent intonation and require retuning more often. You also may encounter string rattles and buzzes.
Alternatively you could stretch the strings. But you are not really stretching them, you are setting the witness points indirectly and inefficiently - the best you will get is that the witness points get partially set. Set them directly and you will get them set properly and fully. No stretching needed.
"It's yo Strang...."
"Do Whatchoo wanna do...."
"I can't tell you...."
"What to witness to....."
Can I get a witness?
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
Been setting witness points during string changes for the better part of my 26 years playing bass, and mostly thru-body stringing for the past 15+ years with my Lakland stable. Never a problem, never a broken string, even with flats. The key - as with anything - is to be gentle about it. Don't cram the string down over the bridge saddle. Gently press with the pad of your finger to lightly seat it, then tune up. Plenty of people overdo it when it comes to setting witness points, torquing screws, etc.
Steinberger solved this problem decades ago with in-line micrometer tuners and double-ball strings, a clearly superior system that has gone by the wayside, which once again demonstrates that technical progress is not always linear, bad design… persists. I set witness points on my old school basses, it works.
I don't know how hard you press the strings to create a witness point, but you should not press them hard... I've always did it on guitars, basses, ukuleles and mandolins, and never had problems.
most of the time the witness point must be done after moving the saddles to make the string bend and sit correctly on the guide, and same at the nut.
but it's a soft pressing, just to make the string sit better on the position/saddle.
I have never really understood the whole witness point thing for this reason: Each string on your bass is already under about 40 pounds of tension when tuned (depending on string size and type, tuning, and other variables). It's hard for me to imagine that 40 pounds isn't sufficient to bend the string over the saddle. Imagine looping your E string over a steel rod and then attaching a 40 pound weight to the end of the string.
I'm sure many people on this site have a better grasp of the physics involved than I do, and perhaps they can explain why I'm wrong.
I'm sure many people on this site have a better grasp of the physics involved than I do, and perhaps they can explain why I'm wrong.
There's still a break angle(s) between the ball-end retainer and nut & "claw" and bridge saddle…just a consideration. As long as the string is departing from the leading aspects of both, life is good.
Riis
I've tried different things after restringing, and even after retuning, and I have not been able to figure out a best way.
I have resorted to simply picking up the instrument, playing a bit of nonsense, and then tuning from there. Always tuning down a bit before I tune up to the correct pitch. Then playing again and checking if it needs more. It usually doesn't, and this works on every bass I own.
When I played more gigs, I would always check the tune after every break (roughly 45 minute sets with 15 minutes breaks between) and they would always be horribly out of tune. I did eventually notice that had to do with the temperature of the strings though, and after playing for a minute, the strings were right back in perfect tune. No intonation problems either. Intonation would only change as the neck started to move over weeks and months, and only a teeny tiny bit.
Another thing that I do is I put a little bit of grease in the nut. Just the tiniest amount to help the string slip through it a bit easier. I don't know if that actually helps, if anything it just eases my mind a bit, knowing that my nut is protected from constant friction.
I have resorted to simply picking up the instrument, playing a bit of nonsense, and then tuning from there. Always tuning down a bit before I tune up to the correct pitch. Then playing again and checking if it needs more. It usually doesn't, and this works on every bass I own.
When I played more gigs, I would always check the tune after every break (roughly 45 minute sets with 15 minutes breaks between) and they would always be horribly out of tune. I did eventually notice that had to do with the temperature of the strings though, and after playing for a minute, the strings were right back in perfect tune. No intonation problems either. Intonation would only change as the neck started to move over weeks and months, and only a teeny tiny bit.
Another thing that I do is I put a little bit of grease in the nut. Just the tiniest amount to help the string slip through it a bit easier. I don't know if that actually helps, if anything it just eases my mind a bit, knowing that my nut is protected from constant friction.
That's one of the big problems with the music industry. A lot of people want classic oldschool stuff, even though there have been plenty of improvements made over the past 70 years.
I always wonder if Leo Fender thought of the P bass and Jazz bass and all the earlier stuff as simply inferior to the more recent stuff he has designed
Easy answer: they don't. I can re-string an instrument, tune to pitch (35-40 lbs each), and ignore the addt'l steps. When viewed laterally, the strings have the tendency to form a "lazy loop" or arc as they pass over the nut and saddle with departure points well-BEHIND the leading aspects. The larger gauge strings are particularly resistant to bending.
Riis
In my opinion, I think setting the witness point is important. But its easy to set set it too much and end up with a string that wants to "point down", if that makes sense.
