Orange SP212 Cab: Worth fixing?

[Cskala]

I picked up a used Orange SP212 cabinet. Turning up the volume on my Subway amp there is a rattle and blown speaker sound, at low volumes it isn't noticeable. Repair guy wants $95 just to diagnose it. Should I cut my loses? Thoughts? thanks

FYI, This will just be a cab I leave and use at the practice house.

 

[agedhorse]

Turning up how much?

Thats a 600 watt cabinet with no mention on their site as to the metrics used.

The most common metric is thermal power rating. The mechanical power rating is almost always the limiting factor and this may be as little as 50% of the thermal rating below 100Hz. There are other possible modifiers as well, including using program or peak power.

Your amp is 800 watts RMS at 4 ohms, enough power to damage the cabinet and certainly to overdrive the speakers, especially with any bass boost.

Keep the volume reasonable, and if the cabinet sounds ok then you know the limits.

It’s also possible that the cabinet is damaged, proper diagnostics is required to identify damage, as well as a possible minor issue that may cause similar symptoms.

 

[Cskala]

Turning up how much?

Not much above comfortable small room level. Definitely not loud enough to be heard with a drummer. maybe 25-35% on the knob and little-to-no gain. Thanks

 

[agedhorse]

Then it sounds like there is something wrong. What may range from trivial to a pair of damaged drivers requiring replacement.

 

[Wasnex]

Not much above comfortable small room level. Definitely not loud enough to be heard with a drummer. maybe 25-35% on the knob and little-to-no gain. Thanks

I would not expect it to be a particularly efficient cab. So it may not seem loud even if you hit it with 600W, which may actually be more than it's mechanical power handling limit.

I don't know if this is accurate but I found a post that said the sensitivity is 93dB, which sounds about right.

The cab is a ported isobaric design. With an isobaric design, the drivers are placed inline with each other.

In a normal 212 you get increased efficiency over a 112. The increased efficiency is because the radiating area is doubled. The sensitivity goes up 3dB and the power handling doubles. So with enough power a 212 should play approximately +6dB louder than a 112.

The radiating area of a normal 112 cab is the same an isobaric 212. I believe the efficiency actually goes down 3dB with the isobaric design because the two drivers share the available power equally. Since power handling doubles the max SPL stays the same, as long as you have a big enough amp.

The claimed benefits are extended low frequency response in a smaller cab, and also there are claims of lower distortion. Isobaric designs made more sense a few decades ago when there were no bass drivers that worked well in small cabinets.

People do seem to like the way this cab sounds. As Agedhorse has indicated, it may not be damaged but you may be pushing it too hard, which will lead to damage.

If the drivers are already damaged, there is a good chance that you will have to replace both. If the drivers are off the shelf (perhaps a 2512), that will not be a problem. But if they are custom OEM designs, they may no longer be available. You may be able to install an off the shelf driver, but the cab will need to be modeled with various drivers to find a suitable replacement.

It seems clear the SP212 is not meeting your volume needs.

 

[Cskala]

thanks....I just opened it up to see what I'm dealing with. the forward speaker isn't right it's a 500watt speaker--I halted my inspection right there. It's supposed to have 2X300watt. I think I'm going to chalk it up to lesson learned, maybe the used guitar store will refund my money (it wasn't much)

 

[Wasnex]

thanks....I just opened it up to see what I'm dealing with. the forward speaker isn't right it's a 500watt speaker--I halted my inspection right there. It's supposed to have 2X300watt. I think I'm going to chalk it up to lesson learned, maybe the used guitar store will refund my money (it wasn't much)

The RMS power handling is generally how much power the voice coil can handle without burning up.

Mechanical power handling is determined by box design and driver specs. If you put the driver in two different cabinet tunings, they will generally have different mechanical power handling characteristics.

So it's possible that a pair of drivers with a 500W RMS power rating will only handle 600W total in a given design.

Here is a more detailed post that I wrote early this morning (if you are interested): Question regarding slight overpowering of cabinet

 

[Cskala]

Here is a more detailed post that I wrote early this morning (if you are interested): Question regarding slight overpowering of cabinet

Great info. Will read this. Thanks for adding to my "continuing education" program
-Chip

 

[S-Bigbottom]

I picked up a used Orange SP212 cabinet.

the forward speaker isn't right it's a 500watt speaker--I halted my inspection right there. It's supposed to have 2X300watt.

Someone has done a swap, it is no longer the cab you thought you purchased.
Return it.

 

[abarson]

Aside from the possible switcheroo...
The speakers need to be wired in phase with each other or they will cancel each other out.
I tried one once at a local shop and it was one of my least favorite pieces of gear I've encountered. All mud regardless of EQ settings. It made me question whether Orange could be taken seriously for putting it on the market.

 

[klejst]

Your cab, your money - your call if it's worth it to you. If it's simply a blown speaker, then I say just replace it.

 

[ardgedee]

thanks....I just opened it up to see what I'm dealing with. the forward speaker isn't right it's a 500watt speaker--I halted my inspection right there. It's supposed to have 2X300watt. I think I'm going to chalk it up to lesson learned, maybe the used guitar store will refund my money (it wasn't much)

If it doesn't have the original speakers, return it. You will probably be out more money than it's worth to source the OEM speakers, and because of the isobarik design you'll have a difficult time finding suitable off-the-shelf speakers.

 

[Titch]

I had an Orange OBC115 cab for some time.
I liked it but ended up moving it on because on its own, it just wasn't capable for my needs. It would distort relatively easily without to much pushing from my amp. The speaker wasn't broken in any way, it just reached its limits early.... The thing weighed as much as my Markbass 152 cab. I can only imagine the 212 would be up there with the 115 in weight.
Take your cab back, get a refund and buy something else that's lighter and performs better.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I picked up a used Orange SP212 cabinet. Turning up the volume on my Subway amp there is a rattle and blown speaker sound, at low volumes it isn't noticeable. Repair guy wants $95 just to diagnose it. Should I cut my loses? Thoughts? thanks

FYI, This will just be a cab I leave and use at the practice house.

Just a quick question, does it have the original drivers in it? That would be the first thing I would check before you spend $95 on a diagnostic. The second thing is while you have the back of the cab removed, check the connections as well as the leads to the speaker cone. Third if you have interest, iso the speakers to find if it’s one speaker or both. You will have to replace the cab when you do your test.

 

[ac100X]

Let me start by I know nothing about speaker design, an absolute zero. I read about the isobaric design and the add said there was a sealed vacuum in the space between the two inline speakers, so the speakers would move together. I always wondered what would happen if this seal failed and the space was not in a vacuum. I tried a used Orange 2 x12 cab in a music store (looks like a 1 x12). It farted out, wasn't good at all. I like Orange bass products and I could not understand why Orange would market this design. I suspected the used cab had lost the vacuum seal and the two speakers are not acting as one, it's that or it's just a poopie cabinet.
I bought the Orange OBC112 and I am very happy with it, I plan on getting another.

 

[Cskala]

Just a quick question, does it have the original drivers in it? That would be the first thing I would check before you spend $95 on a diagnostic. The second thing is while you have the back of the cab removed, check the connections as well as the leads to the speaker cone. Third if you have interest, iso the speakers to find if it’s one speaker or both. You will have to replace the cab when you do your test.

I suspect it doesn’t have original drivers. I opened it up and found 1-500 watt speaker (not sure about the other one). Specs I found online said it comes with 2x300 watt drivers.

called the shop that sold it to me, they’re going to make it good. Fix or return $$

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Sweet!!! Best resolution possible. Congrats.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I picked up a used Orange SP212 cabinet. Turning up the volume on my Subway amp there is a rattle and blown speaker sound, at low volumes it isn't noticeable. Repair guy wants $95 just to diagnose it. Should I cut my loses? Thoughts? thanks

FYI, This will just be a cab I leave and use at the practice house.

Pop the grille, look for damage, tighten the front speaker if there isn't anything visible, play. If it still happens, pop the front speaker out, check for damage on the back one, tighten it down if there isn't any, insert the front speaker, tighten it down, play. If it's still happening, you might want to replace the speakers. Or, buy a Subway 212. It's better anyway

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I suspect it doesn’t have original drivers. I opened it up and found 1-500 watt speaker (not sure about the other one). Specs I found online said it comes with 2x300 watt drivers.

called the shop that sold it to me, they’re going to make it good. Fix or return $$

Awesome!

 

[ardgedee]

I read about the isobaric design and the add said there was a sealed vacuum in the space between the two inline speakers, so the speakers would move together.

The chamber between the two speakers is (and should be) plain air at ambient atmosphere. If a vacuum were possible it would negate the purpose of nesting the drivers.
(edit: now that I think of it, I doubt it would be capable of making sound with a vacuum in the sealed chamber, because each speaker would have to overwhelm the air pressure pushing them inward. Well, you might hear something once the motors overheat and begin warping or burning things.)