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Double Bass orchestral bassists that stand

#21
Eli_Upright12 said:
I stand in my youth orchestra, but more and more I think I might try using a stool. I play my bass really high and its some times hard to play comfortable near the fingerboard. So my options are A) lower the bass, or B) play with a stool. To me the first option has lots of comfort draw backs; I would have to lean over more and have my intonation be changed until I could adjust. With I stool I think I would be able to reach all the notes about the same but I would be able to let the bass lean into me.

Another thought I had was, I wonder if orchestral players like the extra dampening from there leg on the bass. It seems like it would kill some of the extra ringing while playing loud and fast. Anyone know about this aspect of it?
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If you lowered the bass you might try straightening your bow arm out a bit and letting it just hang. Try playing in front of a mirror and pay attention to your elbow, make sure it isn't raised.

How high exactly is your bass? I'm 5'6" but with long arms, and my bass has a 42" string length. When in playing position (I play with the bass fairly straight, but it leans into me a bit), first position A on the G string is in line with my eye-brow. This enables my bow to hang half way between the end of the fingerboard and the bridge. If you're finding that your shoulder is cramping from having the bass too high try examining if your left wrist is too bent while playing.
 
#22
Calvin Marks said:
If you lowered the bass you might try straightening your bow arm out a bit and letting it just hang. Try playing in front of a mirror and pay attention to your elbow, make sure it isn't raised.

How high exactly is your bass? I'm 5'6" but with long arms, and my bass has a 42" string length. When in playing position (I play with the bass fairly straight, but it leans into me a bit), first position A on the G string is in line with my eye-brow. This enables my bow to hang half way between the end of the fingerboard and the bridge. If you're finding that your shoulder is cramping from having the bass too high try examining if your left wrist is too bent while playing.
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I guess the problem is I already play in the Gary Karr style where my arm hangs pretty much straight. I'm 5'10'' on a good day and I have my bass out about seven notches on the endpin. My bass also has high shoulders that have prompted me to play with this high set-up so I can lean it more as I go high on the fingerboard. I'm plenty comfortable playing the way I do now, but its not the best orchestral sound to be playing near the bridge all the time and it would also be nice to not have to stand through rehearsals.
 
#23
once I got really serious with the bass I started to only sit down. I stand if I am playing a solo like dragonetti or something for an audience but not for an orch show. I would be afraid to toss out my back over time.
 
#24
I stand in my orchestra, and a lot of this has to do with former suggestions from teachers, and/or never being able to find a comfortable sitting position. I also use the Laborie endpin, so I think that takes a lot of pressure off of standing.

The realities of not finding parking anywhere close has contributed to standing as well. Just do not feel like carrying a stool or a Lemur chair a long way. Also I have never found a stool that really works for me or a comfortable sitting position for playing.

But, ideally, I would like to have a stool at rehearsal, and I would like to be able to sit during short breaks, etc. or even occasionally while playing. I have noted a number of people go for this option. I always make sure I grab a chair at rehearsal for occasional sitting while holding my bass upright and to have something to sit on during breaks.

My teacher pointed out that is it best to make a decision fully either way, sitting or standing, because there are different mechanics involved in playing. Since I jazz as well, I opted for standing.
 
#25
I go through phases in which I sit and stand. I have finally found a good sitting position that allows me to play comfortably for hours so I haven't been standing nearly as much. Like many people have mentioned, I like standing for solos, but doing heavy orchestral playing I find to be a little tricky when standing.
 
#26
Eli_Upright12 said:
Another thought I had was, I wonder if orchestral players like the extra dampening from there leg on the bass. It seems like it would kill some of the extra ringing while playing loud and fast. Anyone know about this aspect of it?
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The way I sit doesn't dampen the bass any more than standing would. Only the very edges of the back are supported by my leg and body. I think a lot of players who sit are the same way.
 
#27
These are all very solid points. For some people, standing, may be a better option depending on the dampening factor on your specific instrument. Flat-back basses usually dampen quite a lot more than Round backs...This is especially true with my bass where I can hear a very audible difference when my knee is touching the back of the instrument.

For Eli_Upright, why don't you still try and keep the bass vertical, but lower the end-pin a few notches? This should be much more suitable for orchestra, and even when you're playing solos, your bow doesn't need to be over the bridge...We were given the ability to bend at the waist for a reason.

I think the most important thing to do is remain flexible when either sitting or standing. Some players look like they're buried behind their instruments, or they're trying to hard to balance it. A good tip I learned when playing standing is to rock your feet back and forth so the weight remains constant. Sitting during rehearsal breaks is also very beneficial.

Another good tip when standing is to let the bass fall into your body, rather letting your posture conform solely around the instrument. The later way usually leads to the issues of:

a) too much weight on the thumb.

b) too much weight on your right leg.
 
#29
Eli_Upright12 said:
I guess the problem is I already play in the Gary Karr style where my arm hangs pretty much straight. I'm 5'10'' on a good day and I have my bass out about seven notches on the endpin. My bass also has high shoulders that have prompted me to play with this high set-up so I can lean it more as I go high on the fingerboard. I'm plenty comfortable playing the way I do now, but its not the best orchestral sound to be playing near the bridge all the time and it would also be nice to not have to stand through rehearsals.
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Why stand with a straight endpin? You have to physically move the bass if you want to utilize your weight on the E string. Why not just have a stable bass where you don't have to move the bass if you want to play on the E string? To me, the way to accomplish this is either sitting down or playing with a laborie endpin. Why would you not want the bass in a more open position that allows for you to play with the necessary weight on all strings?
 
#30
thedbassist said:
Why stand with a straight endpin? You have to physically move the bass if you want to utilize your weight on the E string. Why not just have a stable bass where you don't have to move the bass if you want to play on the E string? To me, the way to accomplish this is either sitting down or playing with a laborie endpin. Why would you not want the bass in a more open position that allows for you to play with the necessary weight on all strings?
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I use an angled pin too (a tilt block actually), but in the past, I played with a straight pin. I didn't find that one needs to move any more than one would with an angled pin. For me, the trick was to lean the bass at a substantial angle like Volkan Orhon or Edgar with most of the weight of the upper bout into one's hip. Others have the bass very vertical or even leaning forward. The angled pin changes the center of gravity and angle in my favor (particularly for access over the shoulders), but obviously people have managed to find a stable position with a straight pin.
 
#31
thedbassist said:
Why stand with a straight endpin? You have to physically move the bass if you want to utilize your weight on the E string. Why not just have a stable bass where you don't have to move the bass if you want to play on the E string? To me, the way to accomplish this is either sitting down or playing with a laborie endpin. Why would you not want the bass in a more open position that allows for you to play with the necessary weight on all strings?
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mheintz said:
\ For me, the trick was to lean the bass at a substantial angle like Volkan Orhon or Edgar with most of the weight of the upper bout into one's hip. Others have the bass very vertical or even leaning forward.
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Well first off the style of playing near the bridge with slow bow is very much inhibited by a laborie end pin. Second I like being able to move around the bass, something that is not possible while sitting. I'm not quite sure what your saying about weight in the E string, I seem to be able to do that just fine while standing with a straight end pin. Volkan Orhon is a big influence on my style, the way he gets around the bass is very impressive, and he does it mostly by bending at the hips and letting the bass lean into his body.
 
#33
I'm just starting to get back into orchestral playing after a long hiatus, but I do it from a standing position. Hell, I figure if I can stand for 3-4 hours at a club gig, I can certainly manage it for a couple of hours in a classical concert. I've tried sitting, but I end up with a back/ass ache. I supposed some experimentation and $$ would yield me better results using a stool, but why fix what ain't broke?

Plus, I do feel my movement is constricted when I sit; I'm pretty animated when I play, whether jazz or classical.
 
#34
I think the restricted movement argument against sitting is a bit misleading. The main reason I sit is for the great stability and support (restriction) which is especially important with orchestral bowing techniques. I feel like the extra movement that the average "stander" utilizes is excessive and distracting. The cellists, harpists, bassoonists, pianists, hornists...almost every other section in the orchestra faces greater restriction while sitting.
 
#35
Playing in an orchestra is great while sitting on a stool, as the increased assistance by gravity makes for an easier time of getting a big sound out of the bass, though that's the only time I sit.

Since I practice everything standing, doing college auditions this year was nice, as I didn't have to drag around a stool everywhere.
 
#36
I've always been curious if I would like the Laborie endpin, but I'm not really willing to put one on my bass to try it. The recent developments out of KC Strings might change my mind, but it's still sort of an investment in time, money, and energy to install it. If I ever meet another bassist who has a Laborie end pin, though, I'll beg for the chance to try it.
 
#37
A couple of my friends studied with Paul Harris for a bit and he made all of his students play german grip, sit down, and bow near the bridge.

Since I play german grip already, I gave this style of playing a go for about a year.

I eventually went back to standing because bringing a stool everywhere is annoying. Other times I just couldn't carry it between the bass, my amp, and music stand. Also, when I couldn't bring a stool, my intonation would be iffy because I wasn't used to balancing the bass.

And the angle I was playing at contributed to an inflamed ulnar nerve because my elbow was bent at too sharp an angle.

So, I youtubed every standing bass player I could find and found a system of balancing the bass that works for me.
 
#38
I stand and have never really thought that it was a negative thing at all. I guess a few guys that I know who stand would be;
Chris Brown-Principal-St. Paul Chamber Orchestra(my current teacher)
Bill Schrickel-Asst. Principal MnOrch
Dave Williamson-MnOrch
Those are all I can think about now. I do like not having to deal with a stool and being able to move almost any way I could possibly need to.
 
#39
King Chris said:
I stand and have never really thought that it was a negative thing at all. I guess a few guys that I know who stand would be;
Chris Brown-Principal-St. Paul Chamber Orchestra(my current teacher)
Bill Schrickel-Asst. Principal MnOrch
Dave Williamson-MnOrch
Those are all I can think about now. I do like not having to deal with a stool and being able to move almost any way I could possibly need to.
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Fantastic...Now this was a great response. Thank you!
 

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