Double Bass Orchestral instruments

[calypsocoral302]

Maybe it's because I'm part of the tail end of "Gen X", but when and where I was growing up, there were actually MORE female bassists than male. In 9th grade, there were three female bassists... and me.

In my High School Symphony Orchestra (at one of the best public school music programs in the country at that time), there were 3 female bassists, and 3 of us guys. Now, I will say that it was usually the guys who placed highest in the PMEA music festivals, but I think that is easily-attributed to the fact that us "guys" were pretty hyper-competitive, trying to out-do each other, whereas the girls saw the festivals more as an opportunity for musical growth and to play with the highest-caliber student musicians in the area. Having said that, the bassist who ran neck-and-neck with me (and ultimately edged me out to go to the All State (Pennsylvania) festival) was, indeed, a girl. And a cute one, at that.

So, no, I've never really been of the opinion that the bass is a "boys only" club, as I've been surrounded by female bassists for most of my life. However, I do offer one observation that, at least from what I have seen so far, men do seem more likely to stick with the instrument through their later years in life. I have seen very, very few female bassists older than 50.

Of course, that could also be the generational thing again, which still isn't far-removed. I don't think we'll get a clear picture of what is going on with that phenomenon until my generation gets up there in years.

 

[MikeCanada]

eerbrev, if there weren't feathers to ruffle, the internet would be a much different place. I did admit my "no one is imagining anything, it's all right here" post did take even my own quotes out of content, and they ended up on both sides of the fence. I am far from perfect, and very willing to admit that. Liberal interpretations of what was said happened all around. I still believe that we live in a world where assumptions are made based on the instrument you play, sometimes independent of gender, and would like to see that discrimination become a thing of the past. We have all received negative reactions from people who discovered we are bassists. And that is not ok.

There are a lot of factors that should prevent anyone from deciding to play bass. Every instrument has drawbacks, but it takes a special breed to be a bassist. When "everyone pick an instrument day" happened, we were the ones that picked something as big as we were that is impossible to transport, prone to cracks and damage, expensive to purchase and maintain, greatly increases our chances of (non)playing related injuries; the list goes on. When I was twelve, I definitely wasn't thinking about all of those things. My father drives a 1981 Z28 Camaro. I used to think "one day I'll drive that car" now I think "I have no idea how I would get a bass in there" and I drive a VW Golf Wagon.

Musicians universally face uphill battles. We invest a lot of time and money into something that fills our souls, but often leaves our wallets empty. I still think we can do a better job of supporting one another, regardless to instrument, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. and make music more inclusive. I am trying to stop making viola jokes, and I think we can all do something big or small to make a difference.

Wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where French or German and 4ths or 5ths were considered viable options instead of sides you need to take on a battlefield?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I agree that there has been a huge exercise in taking things out of context and making them mean something other than what was actually said. The headings in MikeCanada's post are not appropriate to what sits below them - but it is so long and so wrong, I can't be bothered to go back and correct everything in it. I think you just need to read the thread. not try to summarise and infer meaning.

Context is everything - bit I still have no answer to my question.


EDIT - I only just saw this comment :

"...it's all right here" post did take even my own quotes out of content, and they ended up on both sides of the fence. I am far from perfect, and very willing to admit that."

That's what I was talking about above!

 

[SeaMist_au]

Thank you MikeCanada. Your post was spot on. Most of the quotes were exactly in context. They are inherently sexist. It's what I have been complaining about.
Guys, rather than shouting me down all the time, please just take a moment to think about what you are saying. If it relates being a woman ( or man) to a preconceived set of behaviour or characteristics then it is inherently sexist. Obviously procreation is an exception.
All I have asked ever is for it to stop. Is that so hard?

 

[MikeCanada]

I think we can agree that the size of the instrument and one's ability to move it around has relatively little to do with one's desire to play it, regardless of gender. If that was the only factor influencing why people play any instrument, we would all be flute players. Just ask all the smart people on the subway who think we should have played it instead. To them, it's a no-brainer.

Musicians play what they decide to play. Those decisions are often, but not always influenced by the cultural/social/gender norms and stereotypes (that some here may or may not believe to have been seen in earlier responses) and as such, some instruments are more frequently played by one gender or another. I would like to repeat that I have personally encountered a male professional harpist playing in a North American orchestra, and although that has been seen as the exception to the norm it proves that however few, there are professional harpists.

Beyond the above, your question would likely be much more appropriate in a forum dedicated to harpists, not bassists. I even provided a link to one discussing this issue earlier; here it is again: http://www.harpcolumn.com/forums/you...ts/posts/57542 A brief skim of the content suggested much the same as to what has been presented here: Male harpists feel they are stereotyped and discriminated against unfairly because of the percieved "feminine" nature of their instrument. What a lovely example of how sexism applies to both genders. Some even went as far to say that they have chosen not to pursue private lessons or professional training, because of this discrimination. To me, that seems like some pretty strong "evidence" as to why there are not very many professional male harpists: if amateurs receive enough ridicule that they forgo lessons, professionals would basically need to be masochist.

Here is a webpage for a male harpist: http://www.harplayer.com/ He is American, studied harp with some pretty big teachers there, played at the White House and Carnegie Hall, with a few orchestras, and is currently studying in Paris. That's in Europe!

The San Francisco Symphony's principal harpist is also male: http://www.sfsymphony.org/About-Us/Musicians-Conductors/Members-Of-Orchestra/Harp#artist-988 And he teaches at the San Francisco Conservatory: Invalid Link Removed

If your question is specifically geared towards Europe, I haven't been specifically digging through the personnel of European orchestras. If someone was to do so, it would be highly plausible that one would find a male harpist somewhere in Europe. It is a continent with something in the neighbourhood of 740 million people on it. Statistics alone basically dictate it as an inevitability.

All of the above might not provide the answer(s) you are looking for, but it definitely addresses your initial inquiry.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The thread finally got reported, and since the OP reports that his question has been answered, I think it's safe to say we're done here.