Ordering online - The landscape is changing

[mosley]

I bought a used bass online from Guitar Center for around $1650 and had it shipped to the local store. When it arrived the wood grain on the back was beautiful and on the top it was just funky looking in a way that wasn't really apparent in the thumbnail provided on the website. I knew it would drive me crazy. And the rest of the bass just didn't blow me away enough to be able live with it. They charged me for the shipping to the store when I returned it.
If you get to pay Sweetwaters price for shipping on returns to them, I guess that is ok.
I was getting quotes of $125 to ship a bass to myself when I looked at it last year. I wouldn't want to have to pay that.
Basses are personal. There could be nothing wrong with it and it's just not for you. In the future I might take another chance on a sub $700 instrument. But if it is something expensive, I expect to love it and not have to modify in any way, I need to play it first.
Luckily, where I live there are dozens of music stores within an hour drive from me. I sympathize with someone who lives somewhere that is not the case.

 

[Spupilup]

Anyone who does a lot of shipping has an account with either UPS or FedEx. The rates they are charged are predicated on the volume they of shipping they generate. The greater the amount of shipping you do with FedEx or UPS, the better the discount. When you're as big as Amazon you pretty much get to dictate the rates.

 

[Spupilup]

What I wonder about is how we old people ever managed in the pre internet days. I was born and lived most of my life in or around NYC so finding cool gear was never really a problem. Back in the 70’s it was a quick ride on the train and the world was my oyster on 48th St. From big names like Manny’s, Sam Ash and Rudi’s to the many smaller shops that seemed to come and go over the years, I could always find what I was looking for.



However, for you folks my age in more rural areas, I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been looking for the latest and greatest equipment when you only had one small mom and pop music shop in town (if you were even that lucky). So, how did you manage? Did you get in the car and drive for half a day to get to a more populated area that had a better selection? Did you just work with what was available? Did you wait until you were traveling to make a purchase like a new bass?



I having a feeling that just about any of you who had to deal with that reality thirty or forty years ago would have given anything to be able to order up the latest and greatest new bass with a thirty day money back guarantee. We could have never imagined that on top of that, shipping would be free (or at least incorporated into the total cost) and if we didn’t like the instrument all we had to do was make a few clicks on a keyboard and a discounted return shipping label would be there for us to print out.



If I told you, back in 1975 that’s how you’d purchase a new guitar in 2019 you wouldn’t have believed me. And yet, today, consumers have gotten so accustomed to getting everything as cheap as possible, in this wonderful race to the bottom where, soon enough we’ll only have Amazon and Alibaba to buy from, we b!tch and moan about having to pay a discounted rate to return the bass we’ve decided “wasn’t quite right.”

 

[Anthony66]

I always liked Sweetwater and other online vehicles for ordering online but, it seems like the landscape is changing for two reasons. One, they are now collecting sales tax for NY orders. The other, is if you return you have to pay for that "Free Shipping" that got the item to you.

It's understood, they're not at fault here because they are collecting tax according to law, and it's probably becoming a loser for them to accept returns. My challenge as a consumer though is it makes it difficult to try out instruments. I ordered an inexpensive ABG, now I'm returning it and it's going to cost me $25-30 to have checked it out. I'll probably be spending more time in local shops now. Challenge there is they don't have the product selection online does

What's a bass player to do?

 

[guy n. cognito]

Whenever I see a thread about Sweetwater, I know who will reply first...

 

[guy n. cognito]

Do they charge for the cost to ship if you return? In other words, they are telling me for a $250 bass it cost them $11.25 for "free shipping. So that if I return it, they deduct that from the credit. A bigger challenge, that I didn't anticipate is that I'm getting quotes of over $90 to return. Although that I think I can work out with Sweetwater. They'll send me a label and I'll pay that cost

Yes, yes they do. They only refund shipping if there is an issue.

 

[Anthony66]

What I wonder about is how we old people ever managed in the pre internet days. I was born and lived most of my life in or around NYC so finding cool gear was never really a problem. Back in the 70’s it was a quick ride on the train and the world was my oyster on 48th St. From big names like Manny’s, Sam Ash and Rudi’s to the many smaller shops that seemed to come and go over the years, I could always find what I was looking for.



However, for you folks my age in more rural areas, I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been looking for the latest and greatest equipment when you only had one small mom and pop music shop in town (if you were even that lucky). So, how did you manage? Did you get in the car and drive for half a day to get to a more populated area that had a better selection? Did you just work with what was available? Did you wait until you were traveling to make a purchase like a new bass?



I having a feeling that just about any of you who had to deal with that reality thirty or forty years ago would have given anything to be able to order up the latest and greatest new bass with a thirty day money back guarantee. We could have never imagined that on top of that, shipping would be free (or at least incorporated into the total cost) and if we didn’t like the instrument all we had to do was make a few clicks on a keyboard and a discounted return shipping label would be there for us to print out.



If I told you, back in 1975 that’s how you’d purchase a new guitar in 2019 you wouldn’t have believed me. And yet, today, consumers have gotten so accustomed to getting everything as cheap as possible, in this wonderful race to the bottom where, soon enough we’ll only have Amazon and Alibaba to buy from, we b!tch and moan about having to pay a discounted rate to return the bass we’ve decided “wasn’t quite right.”

When it comes to buying music gear online...Why ANYONE would consider ANY other online music stores than American Musical Supply or Zzounds is beyond me Both stores have all the selections of Sweetwater or Musicians Friend plus you don’t even need a credit card to get in house financing at ZERO interest and free shipping.. they simply deduct the monthly payment from your checking account or debit card over your choice of six, twelve or even 18 months.. no getting rejected for a high interest credit card like with Sweetwater or MF.... it alloed me to get all of the gear I’ve accumulated over the last two years my prized possession being a sonic blue 63 American Vintage Fender Precision that I purchased from Zzounds for the discounted price of $1850 shipped free to my doorstep for 18 payments of something like ninety something bucks a month.. you cant get a better deal on gear anywhere on the planet ... I also bought an SVT VR head and matching 810AV cab the same way... wont bother shopping anywhere else... y’all better get smart and stop giving your hard earned money to these bullshyte stores

 

[pcake]

When it comes to buying music gear online...Why ANYONE would consider ANY other online music stores than American Musical Supply or Zzounds is beyond me Both stores have all the selections of Sweetwater or Musicians Friend plus you don’t even need a credit card to get in house financing at ZERO interest and free shipping.. they simply deduct the monthly payment from your checking account or debit card over your choice of six, twelve or even 18 months.. no getting rejected for a high interest credit card like with Sweetwater or MF.... it alloed me to get all of the gear I’ve accumulated over the last two years my prized possession being a sonic blue 63 American Vintage Fender Precision that I purchased from Zzounds for the discounted price of $1850 shipped free to my doorstep for 18 payments of something like ninety something bucks a month.. you cant get a better deal on gear anywhere on the planet ... I also bought an SVT VR head and matching 810AV cab the same way... wont bother shopping anywhere else... y’all better get smart and stop giving your hard earned money to these bullshyte stores

actually they don't have all the selections of sweetwater or musicians friend, and if you don't need to make payments, i'd say financially it makes the most sense to buy from musicians friend as you can get 8% back and during their many sales, you can get 15% off plus the 8% back.

btw, only the 3 payment plan at AMS is credit-check free - sometimes they stretch the 3 payments to 4. but if you can't get a credit card, you may not be able to get one of the longer plans at AMS, either.

 

[Anthony66]

If you cannot get approved at AMS or Zzounds you probably don’t need to be trying to buy gear anyway... just sayin

 

[Anthony66]

And they price match as well and ive found everything gear wise ive ever needed at one or the other

 

[Anthony66]

actually they don't have all the selections of sweetwater or musicians friend, and if you don't need to make payments, i'd say financially it makes the most sense to buy from musicians friend as you can get 8% back and during their many sales, you can get 15% off plus the 8% back.

btw, only the 3 payment plan at AMS is credit-check free - sometimes they stretch the 3 payments to 4. but if you can't get a credit card, you may not be able to get one of the longer plans at AMS, either.

You don’t need a credit card they take debit cards all day every day and if you dont have a debit card as I said you probably aren’t in a position to be buying expensive music gear anyway and they’ll approve anyone unless your credit is absolutely in the toilet again barring that you have your choice of payment plans to choose from

 

[pcake]

You don’t need a credit card they take debit cards all day every day and if you dont have a debit card as I said you probably aren’t in a position to be buying expensive music gear anyway and they’ll approve anyone unless your credit is absolutely in the toilet again barring that you have your choice of payment plans to choose from

to clarify, i used "credit card" in the most generic sense that included debit cards. i've used the 3-payment plan at AMS many times over the years using debit cards.

 

[searayus1]

Ok, so I'll buy a half dozen basses online then return (for free) the ones I don't like?!? This ain't the dressing room at K-Mart! C'mon man, use your head. The tax thing is understandable; we've all been waiting for that. But to try to justify having Sweetwater rack up a bunch of charges so you can test drive basses is just selfish and stupid. And you wonder why prices are going up???

 

[Marc61]

brick and mortar stores don't really give a rip about bass players.

Ain’t that the truth!

 

[Marc61]

So you got it shipped to you for free, and pay 12.25 return shipping. I fail to see the issue.....

In this case I paid $11.25 to ship to me, and $15.38 to return.

The real reason behind the thread was not to complain so much about the charges but... if they’re collecting sales tax, need to collect both ways on shipping for a return , then the companies might not be able to stay in business. I guess each company has their niche. Sweetwater seems to have the expertise. Musicians Friend appears to offer the biggest discounts. Amazon is probably the best option for tire kickers.

For me, I think if it’s anything approaching major I’ll stick with what the stores have or of course used.

 

[Spupilup]

So, in essence this entire 18 page thread is the result of your paying $26.63 to rent a bass for a month to see if it worked for you. You say you live in the greater NY area but I'm not sure what that really means. Nevertheless, if you are in the tri state area, there are probably 50 or more music stores within a 2 hour ride where, I'm sure you could have tried out and even bought the bass you got from Sweetwater. You should be thankful you're not in bumshag Iowa (pardon me folks from Iowa, I'm only using poetic license). They really don't have the opportunity we have here in the tri state area.

In this "race to the bottom" (look it up if you don't know what I mean) it's people expecting everything for free from online retailers that are ultimately going to drive a spike through the heart of consumer choice. Soon enough, as I also mentioned in a prior thread, the only choices we'll have will be Amazon and Alibaba and if you think they'll be indulging you once they know they're your only choice, think again. The more retail consolidates, the more it will ultimately stifle innovation among those making the really "cool" gear we see right now. You'll see retail giants like Amazon dictating to manufacturers in the same way they are now dictating to shipping companies. The more power they have, the less choice we will all have.

The clock is ticking and people need to wake up. Sites like Amazon are looking long term while consumers, like junkies are just looking for the cheap fix. Jeff Bezos said all he was interested in was market share, not profits. It was his contention that they would eventually come. For years and years he operated at a loss all the while happily gaining market share by putting conventional retailers out of business. If you don't think he wants to do this to every single musical supply retailer, you're sadly mistaken. What we will wind up with is a small number of online retailers ultimately offering an even small degree of choice.

 

[Jeff Scott]

You say you live in the greater NY area but I'm not sure what that really means

IIRC, if he's still living there, Marc is in a pretty upscale neighborhood.

 

[Spupilup]

I just don't know what "greater NY area" means for the OP. I only asked because, just like I said earlier, if he's in the tri-state area, and that means Saddle River, Greenwich, Pound Ridge, the Upper East Side, Great Neck, (all pretty "upscale" neighborhoods) wherever, you're within at least an hour or two of 50 or more guitar shops. It's hard to imagine one couldn't find the instrument they're looking for, unless it's some special edition done for one of the major online retailers, among all those stores.

You could take a ride, check the guitar out, determine pretty quickly if the guitar is for you and either attempt to exercise your negotiating skills or simply thank the retailer, say the guitar wasn't what you had expected and leave. Even if you liked the instrument and failed to negotiate a purchase at least you wouldn't have been putting the onus on an online retailer to let you try the instrument out with the expectation it would be absolutely free.

Come on. Due diligence isn't looking at a handful of online reviews that were most likely bogus to begin with.

 

[Spupilup]

On top of that, I'd love to know how the OP is going to buy used and expect better treatment. He'll either have to physically meet the seller, if he's fortunate enough to find the exact instrument he wants or he'll have to buy the instrument over the internet. I wouldn't want to be the poor guy selling him anything that way. I'd have to wait, depending on the credit card he used to pay for the instrument, up to a year anticipating a charge back for one reason or another.

 

[Spupilup]

BTW, Jeff, I only wish I still had my Jetglo 4001 purchase new back in June of '73. Checkerboard inlays, toaster pickups, man that bass was amazing. I sold it many years ago and always keep my eyes open for a similar Rick.