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Ordering online - The landscape is changing

#301
mdogs said:
What confounds me is that people think a return policy is there for them to do test drives, it’s not!! You return, you should have to pay for it, period end of story. Abuse of these policies is what drives prices up.
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But then how do you demo a piece of gear from an online retailer? Go to a brick and mortar, try it out and then buy from online? Sweetwater will even send gear to people, better customers, for you to try and maybe you'll buy it, maybe you won't. The retailers keep track of abuse of the policies and if you read their terms and conditions they usually will state that they reserve the right to limit returns on persons that are abusing the return policy. Free returns is how online makes more sales. Have you gone to a store, tried an amp or a guitar, played it for twenty minutes and then walked out without purchasing because it wasn't what you wanted? Did you pay for the electricity used? the HVAC used? the salespersons salary? Of course not. Free returns are the online analog of a test drive in store. It's far better than going to a brick and mortar for a test drive and then buying it online.
 
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#303
MultiScaleMale said:
But then how do you demo a piece of gear from an online retailer? Go to a brick and mortar, try it out and then buy from online? Sweetwater will even send gear to people, better customers, for you to try and maybe you'll buy it, maybe you won't. The retailers keep track of abuse of the policies and if you read their terms and conditions they usually will state that they reserve the right to limit returns on persons that are abusing the return policy. Free returns is how online makes more sales. Have you gone to a store, tried an amp or a guitar, played it for twenty minutes and then walked out without purchasing because it wasn't what you wanted? Did you pay for the electricity used? the HVAC used? the salespersons salary? Of course not. Free returns are the online analog of a test drive in store. It's far better than going to a brick and mortar for a test drive and then buying it online.
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Got it. So, I want to check out your band, no pay, it’s just an audition on a Saturday night at 10 PM at my bar. If all goes well, I will give you a paid booking. If I don’t like you though, I will expect you to pay me the lost revenue you cost me because your band sucked and drove business away. Seems about right.
 
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#304
mdogs said:
Got it. So, I want to check out your band, no pay, it’s just an audition on a Saturday night at 10 PM at my bar. If all goes well, I will give you a paid booking. If I don’t like you though, I will expect you to pay me the lost revenue you cost me because your band sucked and drove business away. Seems about right.
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I think you're mixing labor versus a physical item. Try harder.

Google "free returns" and you'll see 1.6 billion hits and a list of very popular sites that offer free returns. You're completely wrong.
 
#306
mdogs said:
This is ridiculous, clearly you do at give a poopie about this, you just want to argue about how these companies are wrong. Try harder.
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No, it's just that you are demonstrably wrong and I'm not arguing that the companies are wrong. I think they're right to offer free returns.

Many online retailers even include a free return shipping label in the package.
 
#307
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#308
MultiScaleMale said:
But then how do you demo a piece of gear from an online retailer? Go to a brick and mortar, try it out and then buy from online? Sweetwater will even send gear to people, better customers, for you to try and maybe you'll buy it, maybe you won't. The retailers keep track of abuse of the policies and if you read their terms and conditions they usually will state that they reserve the right to limit returns on persons that are abusing the return policy. Free returns is how online makes more sales. Have you gone to a store, tried an amp or a guitar, played it for twenty minutes and then walked out without purchasing because it wasn't what you wanted? Did you pay for the electricity used? the HVAC used? the salespersons salary? Of course not. Free returns are the online analog of a test drive in store. It's far better than going to a brick and mortar for a test drive and then buying it online.
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You pay for the return shipping. Free return shipping is NOT the same. By the time you add up the cost of the shipping, the salary of the people restocking the item (never mind they have to pay electricity and HVAC), it's not even in the same ballpark.
 
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#309
MultiScaleMale said:
Sweetwater has decent selection, but never run discounts, now charge sales tax and apparently charge return shipping now. There is no reason to buy from them other than a bag of candy and maybe they have a sweetwater special edition something.
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Which brings me to my final point. In my last order the bag of candy had 5 of those super hot jawbreakers, 4 peppermints and one bit o honey. It's usually more diverse than that. Where's the taffy? The tootsie roll?If they keep doing this to the consumer....well then...
 
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#310
buldog5151bass said:
You pay for the return shipping. Free return shipping is NOT the same. By the time you add up the cost of the shipping, the salary of the people restocking the item (never mind they have to pay electricity and HVAC), it's not even in the same ballpark.
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Sweetwater, MF and GC will charge return shipping. But if you order from Amazon, it's free return shipping. A QSC K12.2 is the same coming from Amazon as it is from Sweetwater. But for me, the initial discount is a more compelling draw. GC / MF routinely have 15% off sales.
 
#317
Jackcrow said:
If musicians friend can sell every instrument at 20 something percent off what they list, why don’t they just advertise it at that price? I’m sure they would do lots of business.
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There's a Minimum Advertised Price (MAP), that is enforced by the manufacturers. Basically it ensures that smaller retailers aren't at as much of a disadvantage vs the bigger stores that are getting larger discounts based on volume. Advertising or listing bellow that price can bring a big fine. You are welcome to sell for whatever you want, but you're not allowed to devalue the item in print (that includes price on the shelf). That's why you always want to ask for a discount
 
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#318
Marc61 said:
I always liked Sweetwater and other online vehicles for ordering online but, it seems like the landscape is changing for two reasons. One, they are now collecting sales tax for NY orders. The other, is if you return you have to pay for that "Free Shipping" that got the item to you.

It's understood, they're not at fault here because they are collecting tax according to law, and it's probably becoming a loser for them to accept returns. My challenge as a consumer though is it makes it difficult to try out instruments. I ordered an inexpensive ABG, now I'm returning it and it's going to cost me $25-30 to have checked it out. I'll probably be spending more time in local shops now. Challenge there is they don't have the product selection online does

What's a bass player to do?
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Federal law is that if a mail order company has a physical presence in your state (such as a regional warehouse, etc.) then you have to pay sales tax. This is nothing new. I've been buying gear via mail order for thirty years and it's always been the same.

As for paying for return shipping, that's also the norm. Unless something is wrong with the item, there is no reason why the retailer should be held responsible.

Regarding various online retailers - If you ask the sales agent for the best deal there's a good chance you might get a price break. I do it all the time. Specific dealers: Sweetwater is sometimes more expensive, but they provide a free setup and check out the instruments carefully before sending them to you. Musician's friend simply passes the instrument along without checking it, but they provide 8% credit towards future purchases on top of what ever discount they may apply, plus they routinely cycle though various types of sales during the year. I also ordered come gear throusgh American Music Supply. Within 24 hours there was a bogus charge on my card made in the city where AMS is based and the following day there was another bogus charge from the east coast. It happened quickly. Someone associated with AMS was a crook. AMS swore their system was safe, even though one charge was next day and same city.

I mostly go through Sweetwater because their people pretty much know their stuff and they are good on following up. With MF it's hit and miss. I've had to dump two MF sales guys for dropping the ball, not answering emails, etc., but I tend to buy higher dollar stuff through them. e.g. – I got a great deal on a new Montage synth, then bought a $1899 Strat Elite with case incl. I got them to knock down the price of the Strat, then applied the points from the Montage purchase, ending up paying only $1,350. Good deal.
 
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#319
Not being from the US, i never ever purchase from these US stores everyone is talking about (Sweetwater, Musician's Friend, etc.) due to the import taxes, currency exchamge and shipping (yes, i could list a Vermont or NY zip code vs a QC postal code and the shipping quote could be easily 3 or 4 times more, even though i live 1.5 hours north of your border! Oh well...), even though some do look like they have items that are not necessarily available outside of the USA and/or exclusive for certain USA stores.
I do try in local stores here in Montréal and purchase online from independant brick and mortar stores from outside of my province if they offer free shipping and lesser taxes than QC.
Never had to return items, but to me, it seems logical to pay return shipping for it and a fee for restocking and all, in ref. to the arguments mentioned earlier.
That aside, i dont mind paying for open box item if the price drop is significant.
 
#320
Marc61 said:
Do they charge for the cost to ship if you return?
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Unless something is wrong with it, sure. It's a good thing they don't charge a restocking fee because if the instrument has been played it instantly becomes and "open box" item and they have to resell it at a reduced price, sometimes knocking off a couple of hundred. If I simply don't like the instrument, I have no problem paying $35 for shipping or whatever. They will be losing a lot more than that.
 

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