Ordering online - The landscape is changing

[MultiScaleMale]

I guess you didn't get that the OP is expecting free shipping on items he isn't buying. That's not really offered anywhere, to anyone, across any group of regular customers that I'm aware of. It's not a "lack of top notch service" to enforce reasonable return policies that everyone in the business follows.

Yes, it's a fact of the business that there are VIP lists. As far as I know, all the larger stores have or had them. But what he's asking for is for the rules to be broken that we all live by just because he thinks he belongs in that category.

No, I got it, but I also got your impression of the customer. There are customers that you treat right, that do a dead person's studio and the rest need to, I believe you said, (slightly paraphrased) "get in line where you belong". Not a place I would shop.

 

[AboutSweetSue]

An elitist, entitled attitude in business will cost you in the end if your market extends to the have-littles. A music shop, considering their clientele (mostly non-professionals), would be best served being professional towards all customers, equally. I couldn’t imagine having the attitude in my being to tell an individual to understand their position in the customer hierarchy.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

This is why Guitar Center & Sam Ash have been great for my revolving door of instruments & amps.
Buy online, don't like it?, drive it to their nearest store for a return.

Yes, it costs me the shipping one-way, & the gasoline to get there & back ($15).
On the bright side, if I go on Monday I can get AYCE spicy wings at hOOters!

A couple of times it got returned for being faulty, & in that case I was returned the value of the shipping costs.

 

[LBS-bass]

No, I got it, but I also got your impression of the customer. There are customers that you treat right, that do a dead person's studio and the rest need to, I believe you said, (slightly paraphrased) "get in line where you belong". Not a place I would shop.

I'm speaking mainly to the entitled attitude of the OP. Of course a store doesn't (or shouldn't) deal with customers using that kind of language, and I haven't been in sales for many years so my personal thoughts and the way I express them in this thread aren't going to make a difference in terms of how anyone gets treated today or tomorrow. I'm not speaking for any establishment. And when I was in sales, I would never say something like that to a customer.

But that's the way the business works, whether people are aware of it or not. Sometimes a dose of reality in the face of a sense of entitlement is a helpful thing. It's not elitist. It's business.

Even the big customers don't get free shipping for trials, but they will get other discounts down the line, as do most of us. The main incentive for bending over a little farther backwards for the VIPs is that they have more leverage in terms of willingness to walk to another vendor with large amounts of cash. Anyone in that position would understand that's how things work. But a good store knows that it needs to keep all its customers happy, and does what it reasonably can to do so. The keyword here is reasonable, though.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I'm speaking mainly to the entitled attitude of the OP. Of course a store doesn't (or shouldn't) deal with customers using that kind of language, and I haven't been in sales for many years so my personal thoughts and the way I express them in this thread aren't going to make a difference in terms of how anyone gets treated today or tomorrow. I'm not speaking for any establishment. And when I was in sales, I would never say something like that to a customer.

But that's the way the business works, whether people are aware of it or not. Sometimes a dose of reality in the face of a sense of entitlement is a helpful thing. It's not elitist. It's business.

Even the big customers don't get free shipping for trials, but they will get other discounts down the line, as do most of us. The main incentive for bending over a little farther backwards for the VIPs is that they have more leverage in terms of willingness to walk to another vendor with large amounts of cash. Anyone in that position would understand that's how things work. But a good store knows that it needs to keep all its customers happy, and does what it reasonably can to do so. The keyword here is reasonable, though.

Back when I was buying camera gear I walked into Penn Camera, a local chain of stores that had really good gear. They were charging full retail for everything and wouldn't budge on prices. B&H had far better prices. One lens that I wanted was $500 less at B&H and I emailed to see if they could do better than their full retail price. They wouldn't, citing their superior knowledge and expertise advice. I needed none of that because I knew the lens I wanted. So, B&H got my business.

That was one strike against them, but what really killed them for me is when I went in to purchase a few filters. Walked up to the counter to pay, the sales guy looked down and saw that I was purchasing less than $100 of stuff and he turned around and walked away. Maybe they were alternating sales at the counter with the other sales person or whatever and he didn't want to waste his commission on my lowly purchase. Whatever the reason, I just left the items, walked out and never returned. Made all my purchases through B&H. Awhile later, they closed citing competition from online retailers. That was certainly a factor, but I heard from others with similar stories that unless you were purchasing a high end dSLR body or something, they didn't want to bother with you.

 

[KB5]

I always liked Sweetwater and other online vehicles for ordering online but, it seems like the landscape is changing for two reasons. One, they are now collecting sales tax for NY orders. The other, is if you return you have to pay for that "Free Shipping" that got the item to you.

It's understood, they're not at fault here because they are collecting tax according to law, and it's probably becoming a loser for them to accept returns. My challenge as a consumer though is it makes it difficult to try out instruments. I ordered an inexpensive ABG, now I'm returning it and it's going to cost me $25-30 to have checked it out. I'll probably be spending more time in local shops now. Challenge there is they don't have the product selection online does

What's a bass player to do?

How about starting to respect the business you borrow basses from while expecting to send back for free? Have you ever had your own business? Everything has a cost associated with it. You expect them to pay someone to inspect, set up, package, and ship an instrument for you to "try" a then return? You do understand that the point of a business is to make money not lose it? While your at it maybe start shopping in local shops. Sure they cost more but they also offer a much higher level of service.

 

[dtripoli]

I'm sure Sweetwater is a good company and a few others on the net.
I don't know if it's just me but I would never, well almost never depending on price, buy a bass I have never played.
You gotta be able to feel the neck. See how it handles the current songs we're doing. Take it for a test drive, so to speak.
Packing up a bass I bought on line but didn't like, making sure its durable packaging, and then pay for shipping.
BTW, I wouldn't buy a car online then wait 3 weeks to get it, later hoping it runs good after sending the full price to the seller.

Exceptions:
I may be a bit different if you are buying , say, a Fender Jazz MIM and already own one or a Squier Jazz that happens to be bargain priced and you already know how it feels and plays.

 

[mdogs]

I'm sure Sweetwater is a good company and a few others on the net.
I don't know if it's just me but I would never, well almost never depending on price, buy a bass I have never played.
You gotta be able to feel the neck. See how it handles the current songs we're doing. Take it for a test drive, so to speak.
Packing up a bass I bought on line but didn't like, making sure its durable packaging, and then pay for shipping.
BTW, I wouldn't buy a car online then wait 3 weeks to get it, later hoping it runs good after sending the full price to the seller.

Exceptions:
I may be a bit different if you are buying , say, a Fender Jazz MIM and already own one or a Squier Jazz that happens to be bargain priced and you already know how it feels and plays.

Ok, but you realize this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread, right?

 

[Cliff Colton]

Who pays for the discounts handed out in the Rewards Program, or is that free?

 

[LBS-bass]

Back when I was buying camera gear I walked into Penn Camera, a local chain of stores that had really good gear. They were charging full retail for everything and wouldn't budge on prices. B&H had far better prices. One lens that I wanted was $500 less at B&H and I emailed to see if they could do better than their full retail price. They wouldn't, citing their superior knowledge and expertise advice. I needed none of that because I knew the lens I wanted. So, B&H got my business.

That was one strike against them, but what really killed them for me is when I went in to purchase a few filters. Walked up to the counter to pay, the sales guy looked down and saw that I was purchasing less than $100 of stuff and he turned around and walked away. Maybe they were alternating sales at the counter with the other sales person or whatever and he didn't want to waste his commission on my lowly purchase. Whatever the reason, I just left the items, walked out and never returned. Made all my purchases through B&H. Awhile later, they closed citing competition from online retailers. That was certainly a factor, but I heard from others with similar stories that unless you were purchasing a high end dSLR body or something, they didn't want to bother with you.

Yep, that’s crappy and no one should be made to feel like their business doesn’t matter. That’s just wrong. Sadly there are always those kinds of experiences out there. The music retail business has certainly had no shortage of poor service

 

[Marc61]

How about starting to respect the business you borrow basses from while expecting to send back for free? Have you ever had your own business? Everything has a cost associated with it. You expect them to pay someone to inspect, set up, package, and ship an instrument for you to "try" a then return? You do understand that the point of a business is to make money not lose it? While your at it maybe start shopping in local shops. Sure they cost more but they also offer a much higher level of service.

Who borrows basses? It’s confounding how few people understood my original post.

 

[mdogs]

Who borrows basses? It’s confounding how few people understood my original post.

Really? I think it is pretty clear who doesn't get it.

 

[gln1955]

Who borrows basses? It’s confounding how few people understood my original post.

Sweetwater sends you basses to try out, which you can return, no questions asked, 30 days later. They have the audacity to charge a hugely discounted shipping fee for this privilege. You complain.

What did we miss?

 

[Marc61]

Sweetwater sends you basses to try out, which you can return, no questions asked, 30 days later. They have the audacity to charge a hugely discounted shipping fee for this privilege. You complain.

What did we miss?

I wasn’t complaining. I was pointing out the landscape is changing. Mostly because Sweetwster and other online companies now collect sales tax. Also, while return shipping ( and we’ve always been responsible for) is to be expected, they now will collect for their shipping to you.

What made me bring it up is a recent purchase that through no fault of Sweetwater or myself really wasn’t as it appeared to be though reviews. It was an inexpensive item and not available in my local stores.

I don’t have the answer, just created a debate.

 

[Marc61]

Really? I think it is pretty clear who doesn't get it.

Yup it’s you. Hopefully you’ll get over yourself and read the posts again.

 

[pcake]

I wasn’t complaining. I was pointing out the landscape is changing. Mostly because Sweetwster and other online companies now collect sales tax. Also, while return shipping ( and we’ve always been responsible for) is to be expected, they now will collect for their shipping to you.

What made me bring it up is a recent purchase that through no fault of Sweetwater or myself really wasn’t as it appeared to be though reviews. It was an inexpensive item and not available in my local stores.

I don’t have the answer, just created a debate.

to be fair, sweetwater and the others don't want to collect sales tax - they have to.

did you make it clear to sweetwater that the item wasn't as described? they took something back for me with no return shipping lately in that exact situation.

 

[-Stingray]

At Musiciansfriend you can pretty much always get 15% off (you just have to be willing to call), PLUS and additional 8% if you join their backstage pass club. That's 23% off. Now with the sales tax thing, that's another 9%!

Joe, are you saying if you call in you get an additional 15% off from the price listed online??

 

[Joe Nerve]

Joe, are you saying if you call in you get an additional 15% off from the price listed online??

Yes. About 30 times a month Musiciansfriend has some sort of 15% off sale . If you order online, you get a message saying your item doesn't apply (they have a HUGE LIST of items that don't apply, and the list covers pretty much everything they sell), but a message also comes up saying something like, "But don't worry, call us." 99% of the time they say, "Sure. We can do that." There are a few reasons they do that, and I'm not sure which are the most accurate, but to me it doesn't matter. All that matters is that they're giving me the 15% off. The only item they ever WOULDN'T do that with was an iPad. There are some (very few) that are rock solid on their sales policies, and stores aren't allowed to offer discounts.

The other 8% is in store credit that you get once the return period expires. For my purchase of the Mustang, that comes out to 5 free sets of strings. I never got that kind of discount anywhere else online. 15% off, plus we'll throw you $82 store credit. Sweet.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Anyone who feels this plays into the sale of basses in any way (or musical instruments) is a fool, period.

The list prices don't come from the individual stores. If shipping is being calculated into the price, its being done by the manufacturer. Not the retailer. It become the price of the instrument. Its like playing a game of semantics. Companies cut corners one way, and tack $$$ on another. Today you can get a bass of WAY better quality than you could in 1970, delivered for FREE to your door, for less than you would have had to pay in 1970 WITHOUT shipping. So shipping being a part of the price doesn't amount to a whole lot. That money is most likely being skimmed off some other place. I'm not even so sure manufacturers are actually even doing that. Just wrote all that for the sake of argument.

Also, if 5 online stores are advertising "free shipping," but Joe Schmoe Music on Main St. can't afford to do that, guess what? Then those other places are offering free shipping.

I'll add to that the fact that there are MANY items Amazon sells cheaper than in stores, and offers free shipping AND returns. I bought 2 winter jackets in Macy's last year because they were having their huge blowout sale. Signs all over the store saying 50 to 70% off. I got 2 Tommy Hilfiger winter coats for under $100. I was thrilled, but felt duped and typed the item numbers into Amazon when I got home. The jackets were $10 less on Amazon, no sale, no nothing. No shipping either. On principle, I returned the Macy's jackets. Had they not duped me with the 70% BS I would have kept them. Yeah, it was childish on my part, but I hate deceptive advertising.

Not necessarily directed at you, just quoting because it was the last thing I read and it's where my thought process began... When an online store offers free shipping, they're more able to do that than a brick and mortar store because the brick and mortar has to give you "free" storage and display and salespeople and HVAC and everything associated with running a store. So, yeah, an online store really can offer free shipping because it's probably a lot cheaper than the fraction of overhead that the bass that sat on display for 9 months consumed.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Not necessarily directed at you, just quoting because it was the last thing I read and it's where my thought process began... When an online store offers free shipping, they're more able to do that than a brick and mortar store because the brick and mortar has to give you "free" storage and display and salespeople and HVAC and everything associated with running a store. So, yeah, an online store really can offer free shipping because it's probably a lot cheaper than the fraction of overhead that the bass that sat on display for 9 months consumed.

I didn't take that as directed at me , thanks though... I want to add though that the only reason I posted that was in response to the post I was responding to. My heart goes out the mom and pop places. My brother's optical business, which was once very successful is going down the tubes because they can't afford to do what online companies are now doing. People come in, try on glasses, get prescriptions, take an hour of their time, and then say, "I'm going to think about it." And of course never return. Ehh...

PS. I deleted my post because it was unnecessarily snarky. Apologies to @Spupilup. Happens before my coffee sometimes.