Ordering online - The landscape is changing

[mrjim123]

I gotta say that I'm still dumbfounded that more people aren't buying from Musiciansfriend. IT'S THE SAME EXACT INSTRUMENTS YOU'RE GETTING in these other online stores. I get passionate about this for 2 reasons.

1. I don't ever want MF to go out of business.
2. I want to help my fellow bass players.​

At Musiciansfriend you can pretty much always get 15% off (you just have to be willing to call), PLUS and additional 8% if you join their backstage pass club. That's 23% off. Now with the sales tax thing, that's another 9%!

I just bought an American Performer Mustang.

It cost me $938 at Musiciansfriend, after the 15% and 8% Backstage Pass that I'll use to get strings.

If I bought it at elsewhere it would cost me $1,308.

I would have to be a complete fool to spend $370 more.

I don't get it.

Thanks. That's very helpful info. I'd always just waited until GC sent me a 15% off coupon, and even that is not usable for a lot of name brands. I'll have to check out Backstage Pass. Woohoo!

 

[Mannyinnewyork]

I've used sweetwater many, many times. The one time I had to replace something it was not a problem at all and it was at no cost to me but, in my case the bass was defective. It wasn't a case of me changing my mind. I've also used MF and had similar good experiences. What I liked more about sweetwater was the ability to see the actual instruments (in some cases), with the actual weights and select the one you want.

 

[pcake]

uh, several sites have statements which equate to "try it out and return if you don't like it". features like that are how they get you buy from them, rather than another place. Even a physical store.



Your stated return shipping price of $25-$30: is that via a pre-paid label from the seller? or the price you pay to arbitrarily visit the courier office of your choice?

Either way: $30 to ship a bass is a REALLY good price. I would pay about 3 times that much, from an arbitrary visit to a UPS store. I'm guessing that price is a pre-paid label from a vendor.

yes, you get an RMA with a pre-paid label, and usually return prices are super low because of their volume discounts.

How do these places stayin business?
​

You must be pretty good!

not particularly. i'm not bad, either, but i'm no virtuoso. i expect they do it with everyone when the store is empty. and if they do it to everyone, it wouldn't be a surprise if the store is often empty. they say they make most of their money on lessons.

The reason I prefer Sweetwater over Musicians Friend is that you can choose your instrument and see what you're getting. I've emailed MF about scratch and dent stuff and they can't even tell you exactly what the blem is. Not sure if they're unable or just unwilling but it's frustrating. You can also email them (Sweetwater) and get close to the same discounts you get at MF. As of my last purchase they still didn't collect sales tax in MO so I actually end up with the same or better deal with them with superior customer service and a better set up instrument out of the gate. Now if they'd only carry G&L...

yup - i got to chose the ibanez SRH500 i wanted by weight and appearance. i weighed it when it got here, and the weight was dead on.

for less expensive basses they don't weigh individually, sales reps there can request the warehouse weigh several of the boxed bass you want and send you the lightest one. btw, they don't show pics of the individual scratch and dent instruments - at least not that i've seen.

Where I live if i want to try something other than Fender or Ibanez I'm a basically just crap out of luck...I support my local Mom and Pop whenever I can and 99.9% of the time the match or beat internet prices on everything...

online I have used all the major outlets as well as a few not so major and have had basically good luck with all of them...Best customer service experiences have been with Sweetwater and Zzounds...

I also am very lucky to have one of the best drum shop in the country within driving distance...and they kill internet prices every time!!! and all they guys that work there play...and the selection is out of this world...basically every brand on the market but Ddrum as the owner hates them for some reason...funny story I wanted a particular matched set of cymbals recently...one of the big chains had them on sale...I walked in and said hey can you sell me the same set for that price....the owner said sure, but only if you want to pay more...he beat the sell price by 20% and threw in a Branded Cymbal bag to match!!! for Drum gear I go no place else

wow, i've never had an experience in any music store like that. that's very nice.

I've spent thousands at Sweetwater. No "local music store" can begin to compete with them as far as selection. But I think most of the "reviews" of products posted on their website are made-up.

i doubt they are. i and several people i know review the gear we buy after we've had a chance to try it.

 

[baileyboy]

I gotta say that I'm still dumbfounded that more people aren't buying from Musiciansfriend. IT'S THE SAME EXACT INSTRUMENTS YOU'RE GETTING in these other online stores. I get passionate about this for 2 reasons.

1. I don't ever want MF to go out of business.
2. I want to help my fellow bass players.​

At Musiciansfriend you can pretty much always get 15% off (you just have to be willing to call), PLUS and additional 8% if you join their backstage pass club. That's 23% off. Now with the sales tax thing, that's another 9%!

I just bought an American Performer Mustang.

It cost me $938 at Musiciansfriend, after the 15% and 8% Backstage Pass that I'll use to get strings.

If I bought it at elsewhere it would cost me $1,308.

I would have to be a complete fool to spend $370 more.

I don't get it.

Additionally, set up an account with Mr.Rebates and order through the site... you will save even more. On Black Friday three years ago, I bought my USA Geddy Lee jazz new. After getting all possible discounts, I ended up paying $1360 total, not bad.

 

[Toptube]

Perhaps you should give us some links to those sections of those sites.

Here is samedaymusic
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Its also worth noting this is Kiesel/Carvin's business model. direct to consumer. 10 day trial. return for any reason.

and see this post I quote below, for two other common answers.

These are the two major ones. Pretty straightforward.

Sweetwater:
"No Hassle" Return Policy:
We want you to be completely happy with your purchase. If you are not satisfied with any product, for any reason, you may return it for a refund of the purchase price, an in-house credit, or exchange for another product within a fair amount of time from the shipping date (usually 30 days). If your purchase was eligible for free shipping, the shipping cost will be deducted from your credit or refund.

Musician's Friend:

45 Day Satisfaction Guarantee - Limitations and Exceptions Apply*
Our goal is your total satisfaction.

If you're not satisfied, neither are we. If for any reason you're not completely satisfied with your purchase, simply return it in its original condition within 45 days of purchase (see Limitations and Exceptions to 45-day Return Period below) and we'll give you a full refund of the purchase price, excluding shipping and handling charges. It's that simple. You must have a return authorization code in order to return items. Returned items must be in original, brand-new condition and show no signs of wear or use including, but not limited to, belt-buckle or pick scratches, scuffs, dings or scrapes on the instrument or collateral materials. Items must also include all original packaging, manuals, warrantees and accessories or your return may be subject to a return handling charge. There is a minimum 15% re-stocking fee for returns that are not in original condition. Click Hereto see detailed return handling chargesOpens a New Window. to see detailed return handling charges. Your refund will be promptly processed when we have confirmed that your returned item meets these requirements. Refunds are made for product value only, excluding shipping and handling charges. If you received Free Shipping on your order, the value of the uncharged shipping cost will be deducted from your refund.

*Limitations and Exceptions to 45-day Return Period
Returns of the following products must be made within 10 days of shipment - Stringed instruments priced at $1999.00 or more.

The following products cannot be returned – Clearance items, Apple products, items identified as non-returnable, discontinued items, electronic software downloads, demo gear, vintage instruments, strings, reeds, computers, tubes, earbuds, earplugs, recorders, tin whistles, flutophones, "world" wind instruments, harmonicas, raw-frame speakers, drumheads, drumsticks, turntable cartridges, fog fluid, clothing/footwear, body jewelry, sheet music, cleaners, polishes and polishing cloths, software/soundware, books, CDs, DVD's, vinyl records, and videos.

The following fees apply to Band & Orchestra returns - All returned woodwind and brass instruments incur a $10.00 sanitization fee. Returned bows are assessed a $4.00 restocking fee. Returned mouthpieces over $300 incur an $8.00 sanitization fee; the fee for mouthpieces under $300 is $4.00.

Abuse of Return Privileges
Our return policy is in place to ensure our customers don't get stuck with the wrong piece of gear. We may, in our sole discretion, limit or suspend return privileges for customers who abuse or attempt to violate our return policy through practices including, but not limited to, excessive returns, attempts to return items that are no longer in brand-new condition, etc.

 

[Toptube]

yes, you get an RMA with a pre-paid label, and usually return prices are super low because of their volume discounts.

Yeah so allowing you access to their discounted shipping cost, allows you to return the bass for an incredibly low shipping price. Indeed, this indirectly means you are paying $30 to test out an instrument in your own home with all of your own gear. but......that's pretty amazing and worth $30. Especially when you consider the often very poor experience of testing instruments at Guitar Center (poor setups, out of tune, ambient noise, etc). or the fact that a relatively better, but probably smaller music store will only have a couple of handfuls of basses on hand. Unless you are lucky and have a local, bass specific shop. But those are rare and Seattle lost BassNW so.....

 

[Snakeman1066]

wow, i've never had an experience in any music store like that. that's very nice.

a little off topic i know but, Bentley's Drum shop is amazing any way you slice it...every time I'm in there it's a wonderful experience...Famous drummers drop by all the time as well!

 

[AboutSweetSue]

I've decided to piece my own basses together from here on out. It's raising my blood pressure, but I'm sure it's worth it in the end.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I like zzounds.

 

[tycobb73]

I prefer buying online. I'm not going to decide if I like something spending an hour with it at the music store. I need to put it through its paces at the very least at a band practice. I don't drive due to blindness and my wife is very busy working ata driving both me and our children around. I am local stores what the return policy is and they say store credit on a limited selection of inventory. Like Joe I think mf is the way to go.

 

[glocke1]

I always liked Sweetwater and other online vehicles for ordering online but, it seems like the landscape is changing for two reasons. One, they are now collecting sales tax for NY orders. The other, is if you return you have to pay for that "Free Shipping" that got the item to you.

It's understood, they're not at fault here because they are collecting tax according to law, and it's probably becoming a loser for them to accept returns. My challenge as a consumer though is it makes it difficult to try out instruments. I ordered an inexpensive ABG, now I'm returning it and it's going to cost me $25-30 to have checked it out. I'll probably be spending more time in local shops now. Challenge there is they don't have the product selection online does

What's a bass player to do?

So you buy something with the intention of trying it out and returning it if you don't like it and expect the vendor to still cover the shipping costs because why?

 

[two fingers]

I don't disagree but, how do you know if the product is to your liking without checking it out? In this case, I read extremely positive reviews but, when I got it, seemed nothing like I thought it would be. BTW - their policies basically state no hassle returns. This implies the policy is for ppl to test drive

But why would THEY pay for your test drive? That doesn't make any sense.

So, you order a bass. You pay for said bass. You pay little or nothing for shipping. You don't like the bass. If you somehow get Sweetwater to pay for your return shipping, they will be out $50 dollars on shipping both ways. If 50 people a day do that, they're out $2,500 bucks. AND their instruments have now been handled. How are you going to feel when you receive a "new" instrument from them, and the stickers have been removed, or fingerprint smudges are all over it. (Or should Sweetwater also pay a full-time employee to wipe down all the fondled instruments and mixers and lights and tubas and harmonicas that get returned?)

Nah. That's incredibly unrealistic. Unless it's damaged, or not as described in the add, you pay to kick the tires.

If that's unacceptable to you, then, yes, dealing with your local dealers is the way to go. Sweetwater ain't free a library of musical instruments. That's a business model that mean they wouldn't last long.

 

[mdogs]

Here is samedaymusic
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Its also worth noting this is Kiesel/Carvin's business model. direct to consumer. 10 day trial. return for any reason.

and see this post I quote below, for two other common answers.

Ya, never heard Same Day Music and Carvin does not count. They are a manufacturer not a dealer, they can afford to live by different rules. Regardless, even same day is going to charge you for shipping both waysif you just return it without a good reason.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I don't disagree but, how do you know if the product is to your liking without checking it out? In this case, I read extremely positive reviews but, when I got it, seemed nothing like I thought it would be. BTW - their policies basically state no hassle returns. This implies the policy is for ppl to test drive

I'm with you Marc. There are too many inconsistencies from bass to bass for me to buy online. Amps, speakers, cabs, pretty much are not going to have the potential variances that you might find with an instrument.

 

[96tbird]

Return shipping and restocking should be paid by you if you're only kicking tires. Its only fair. But, if it arrives defective, it should be free to send it back.

 

[James Collins]

I believe it is fair to have a restocking fee or to have to pay your own return shipping. I also think it is nice when a company offers free return shipping, but I don't think it is correct to think of it as "test driving". Returns are for when an item is damaged or not what was advertised.

On the tax end of things: you were always supposed to pay state taxes on things you bought online. You were supposed to keep track of your receipts, tally the tax, and pay it on your annual state taxes. No one did this, myself included. It was nice while it lasted.

 

[SBassman]

What confounds me is that people think a return policy is there for them to do test drives, it's not!! You return, you should have to pay for it, period end of story. Abuse of these policies is what drives prices up.

Couldn't agree more. Perfectly stated.

 

[LM Bass]

Here in Vancouver, I've had great service from Jean and Jamil in the bass department at Long and McQuade. The store has a very Mom and Pop vibe, and I like the way they treat employees (including a number of my students). I think if I were to need something they couldn't get me I would look into Sweetwater (if the US border fees and shipping didn't scare me off too much!), but I've had great mail order service from Club Bass in Toronto as well.

 

[SBassman]

I hardly consider $25 a large amount of money to test drive an instrument for like 30 days or whatever it may be, people don't consider what a hassle returns are for the retailer either.

Joe is right about MF though they have an unbeatable discount system

And the las time I checked, that were one or two steps from bankruptcy.

 

[Toptube]

Ya, never heard Same Day Music and Carvin does not count. They are a manufacturer not a dealer, they can afford to live by different rules. Regardless, even same day is going to charge you for shipping both waysif you just return it without a good reason.

Yes, and the point is that return shipping, especially with pre-paid dealer shipping price, is a very good value in order to privately test an instrument with your own gear or even your band.

I still own an bass I bought from samedaymusic, in 2010.

and bringing up Kiesel/Carving, its essentially the same from the perspective of the consumer. Buy a bass and return it for any reason. Kiesel offers 10 days. Samedaymusic offers 60 days. Other sites fall in between. Doesn't matter if its a production line bass from Korea or a bass made in Kiesel's factory: the model is the same. The point is to allow you to try it out. Kiesel is only dealing their own products, so they can directly say: "try it out. if you don't like it, return it. We don't want you to keep it if you don't like it" (Jeff Kiesel says stuff like this all the time). Musician's Friend can't say that, due to being a third party dealer. However, the point is the same. Try it and return it if you don't like it.