Ordering online - The landscape is changing

[Iridescentone]

The USA is weird. Here in the UK the price is what is on it 99.9% of the time. Haggling is uncouth and cuts into time for drinking tea.

Yeah no doubt, just one question....

Is it considered gauche if you don't raise your little pinky up when holding those dainty little teacups?

I guess the real question is.....

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Okay, I think I got this. You order a bass with free shipping for $800 plus tax, for a total charge of $840 (or whatever the tax is.)

You want to return it only because you don't like it. (It is not defective or damaged) The return shipping slip from them costs you $20.

So from the original charge of $840, they refund the bass's price of $800, refund the sales tax of $40, but also deduct from your refund the original outbound shipping and the return shipping for a total refund of $800?

It does seem a bit hinky to charge for shipping listed as 'free' when you return it, but as long as it's covered and explained in the terms, it's okay by my book.

 

[pcake]

I much prefer to go to a brick 'n mortar to try stuff out, because you can compare competing products. When things are available only via the interwebs, I'm going to narrow things down based on specs alone, and that may eliminate possibilities that deserve more consideration.

When hands-on tryout isn't possible, I consider cost of shipping a fair fee to pay. Having an item show up on my doorstep saves me the time I'd spend going to the store, trying in a sub-optimal environment, and driving back, and my time has value. $20-$30 to be able to try something out at home for a week or three is money well spent, IMO.

these days, i can rarely find anything i want to try locally - and i'm in l.a. - so i very much appreciate the return policy that allowed me to try the ergonomics of the bass i am returning for $16. otherwise i'd be stuck with a bass that hurt my hand and wrist, so i, too, think of the return shipping as money well spent. for that matter, even if i could rent some of the things i sent back, it would cost more than i pay for return shipping.

I'm all for "supporting the local economy thing", but only to a point. Now, I don't expect a deal or discount necessarily, but I do expect great customer service if I'm going to pay full retail for something. There's a local shop where the owner is kind of rude, offers insanely ridiculously low trade in offers for your gear, and will not budge a cent of MSRP on anything. And add to that his a bit condescending and rude. His business also seems to be struggling. If it came down to his shop and ordering online, I'll order online any day of the week. With that said, I've also driven 4 hours each way just to go check out a acoustic guitar, and have no problem routinely hopping in the car.

there's one store that's semi-local to me, and it sounds like you're describing their owner to a t. except sometimes our semi-local owner charges more than list. he also doesn't take credit or debit cards, and who wants to carry tons of cash with them to potentially make a purchase?

we also have a larger local store where i tried out some acoustic guitars. the entire bottom floor is a single very large room where you play, and when i tried out guitars there, two employees and a friend of the store watched and listened to me like i was the entertainment. they actually came closer when i played more softly! i found it uncomfortable and have only returned once to the same scenario.

i love ordering online or at big box stores - if i'm playing for people, i should get paid. otherwise, give me my anonymity while i'm trying stuff out.

 

[JoeWPgh]

I agree that it's fair to pay return shipping because you do not like something, or decide it's not worth the cost. But return shipping on a defective item should be free.

 

[pcake]

I agree that it's fair to pay return shipping because you do not like something, or decide it's not worth the cost. But return shipping on a defective item should be free.

and it is. sweetwater, GC, MF, sam ash, amazon and AMS are among the online stores that don't charge for return shipping for items that are defective.

 

[Jeff Scott]

That's my plan going forward, and has been in the past. Challenge is the local stores can only carry so much stuff.

I am really surprised that one couldn't find virtually anything in the greater NYC area.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Haggling is uncouth and cuts into time for drinking tea.

Wow, you guys over there have to haggle to get tea? That's not cool, and by the time you get done with all the haggling, the tea will be.

Where we go to eat, the tea is free, and free-flowing, too.

 

[Toptube]

What confounds me is that people think a return policy is there for them to do test drives, it's not!! You return, you should have to pay for it, period end of story. Abuse of these policies is what drives prices up.

uh, several sites have statements which equate to "try it out and return if you don't like it". features like that are how they get you buy from them, rather than another place. Even a physical store.

I always liked Sweetwater and other online vehicles for ordering online but, it seems like the landscape is changing for two reasons. One, they are now collecting sales tax for NY orders. The other, is if you return you have to pay for that "Free Shipping" that got the item to you.

It's understood, they're not at fault here because they are collecting tax according to law, and it's probably becoming a loser for them to accept returns. My challenge as a consumer though is it makes it difficult to try out instruments. I ordered an inexpensive ABG, now I'm returning it and it's going to cost me $25-30 to have checked it out. I'll probably be spending more time in local shops now. Challenge there is they don't have the product selection online does

What's a bass player to do?

Your stated return shipping price of $25-$30: is that via a pre-paid label from the seller? or the price you pay to arbitrarily visit the courier office of your choice?

Either way: $30 to ship a bass is a REALLY good price. I would pay about 3 times that much, from an arbitrary visit to a UPS store. I'm guessing that price is a pre-paid label from a vendor.

 

[mdogs]

uh, several sites have statements which equate to "try it out and return if you don't like it". features like that are how they get you buy from them, rather than another place. Even a physical store.



Your stated return shipping price of $25-$30: is that via a pre-paid label from the seller? or the price you pay to arbitrarily visit the courier office of your choice?

Either way: $30 to ship a bass is a REALLY good price. I would pay about 3 times that much, from an arbitrary visit to a UPS store. I'm guessing that price is a pre-paid label from a vendor.

Perhaps you should give us some links to those sections of those sites.

 

[Bass Viking]

there's one store that's semi-local to me, and it sounds like you're describing their owner to a t. except sometimes our semi-local owner charges more than list. he also doesn't take credit or debit cards, and who wants to carry tons of cash with them to potentially make a purchase?

How do these places stay in business?
​

we also have a larger local store where i tried out some acoustic guitars. the entire bottom floor is a single very large room where you play, and when i tried out guitars there, two employees and a friend of the store watched and listened to me like i was the entertainment. they actually came closer when i played more softly! i found it uncomfortable and have only returned once to the same scenario.

You must be pretty good!

 

[JW56789]

I'm fortunate that here in Nashville there's the big chains, wonderful local stores, vintage, etc. So generally I'm only buying basses online IF it's something discontinued that's left over at a store somewhere else, or a used piece that hits me. Otherwise, I prefer to deal locally, and instead of paying for shipping, I can go to lunch !

 

[Iridescentone]

Because free shipping applies to items you purchase. If you return the item, it's not a purchase.

There's another cost to them, a pretty steep cost, that no one is mentioning. Once you took that item out of the box and put your fingerprints on it there's no way they can sell it as new. So you have devalued the product by "checking it out" and they have to discount it. They're going to pay shipping to and from so that you and hundreds of others can do this all day long? I don't think that's a very sustainable way to do business.

Tire kicking put the brick and mortar stores out of business, and now you're suggesting we do the same for the online retailers. Not gonna happen.

All good points, except one?:

With all the free-lunchers returning items to MF for myriad reasons, does anyone really believe MF doesn't relist some of those items as brand new?

Has anyone bought a "new" item from MF, only to find that it had obviously been "handled" by a previous customer, then returned? I know I have.

If MF actually did discount every "undamaged" returned item, that would also seem to be an unsustainable biz model.

 

[lfmn16]

That "free" shipping is paid by people that actually buy stuff.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I am really surprised that one couldn't find virtually anything in the greater NYC area.

If there are only four of something in existence and they were all made for a Chicago dealer (such as the Rick 4004 Plumglo's) that in of itself sort of negates that theory

 

[LBS-bass]

These are the two major ones. Pretty straightforward.

Sweetwater:
"No Hassle" Return Policy:
We want you to be completely happy with your purchase. If you are not satisfied with any product, for any reason, you may return it for a refund of the purchase price, an in-house credit, or exchange for another product within a fair amount of time from the shipping date (usually 30 days). If your purchase was eligible for free shipping, the shipping cost will be deducted from your credit or refund.

Musician's Friend:

45 Day Satisfaction Guarantee - Limitations and Exceptions Apply*
Our goal is your total satisfaction.

If you're not satisfied, neither are we. If for any reason you're not completely satisfied with your purchase, simply return it in its original condition within 45 days of purchase (see Limitations and Exceptions to 45-day Return Period below) and we'll give you a full refund of the purchase price, excluding shipping and handling charges. It's that simple. You must have a return authorization code in order to return items. Returned items must be in original, brand-new condition and show no signs of wear or use including, but not limited to, belt-buckle or pick scratches, scuffs, dings or scrapes on the instrument or collateral materials. Items must also include all original packaging, manuals, warrantees and accessories or your return may be subject to a return handling charge. There is a minimum 15% re-stocking fee for returns that are not in original condition. Click Hereto see detailed return handling chargesOpens a New Window. to see detailed return handling charges. Your refund will be promptly processed when we have confirmed that your returned item meets these requirements. Refunds are made for product value only, excluding shipping and handling charges. If you received Free Shipping on your order, the value of the uncharged shipping cost will be deducted from your refund.

*Limitations and Exceptions to 45-day Return Period
Returns of the following products must be made within 10 days of shipment - Stringed instruments priced at $1999.00 or more.

The following products cannot be returned – Clearance items, Apple products, items identified as non-returnable, discontinued items, electronic software downloads, demo gear, vintage instruments, strings, reeds, computers, tubes, earbuds, earplugs, recorders, tin whistles, flutophones, "world" wind instruments, harmonicas, raw-frame speakers, drumheads, drumsticks, turntable cartridges, fog fluid, clothing/footwear, body jewelry, sheet music, cleaners, polishes and polishing cloths, software/soundware, books, CDs, DVD's, vinyl records, and videos.

The following fees apply to Band & Orchestra returns - All returned woodwind and brass instruments incur a $10.00 sanitization fee. Returned bows are assessed a $4.00 restocking fee. Returned mouthpieces over $300 incur an $8.00 sanitization fee; the fee for mouthpieces under $300 is $4.00.

Abuse of Return Privileges
Our return policy is in place to ensure our customers don't get stuck with the wrong piece of gear. We may, in our sole discretion, limit or suspend return privileges for customers who abuse or attempt to violate our return policy through practices including, but not limited to, excessive returns, attempts to return items that are no longer in brand-new condition, etc.

 

[Watchootognbout]

I gotta say that I'm still dumbfounded that more people aren't buying from Musiciansfriend. IT'S THE SAME EXACT INSTRUMENTS YOU'RE GETTING in these other online stores. I get passionate about this for 2 reasons.

1. I don't ever want MF to go out of business.
2. I want to help my fellow bass players.​

At Musiciansfriend you can pretty much always get 15% off (you just have to be willing to call), PLUS and additional 8% if you join their backstage pass club. That's 23% off. Now with the sales tax thing, that's another 9%!

I just bought an American Performer Mustang.

It cost me $938 at Musiciansfriend, after the 15% and 8% Backstage Pass that I'll use to get strings.

If I bought it at elsewhere it would cost me $1,308.

I would have to be a complete fool to spend $370 more.

I don't get it.

One problem with MF and so many others is that they will use a catalog photo of the given bass.Instead of a pic of the actual bass.
So you can't see any actual features(or defects)
Catalog photo https://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/esp-ltd-d-6-6-string-bass-guitar

 

[LBS-bass]

One problem with MF and so many others is that they will use a catalog photo of the given bass.Instead of a pic of the actual bass.
So you can't see any actual features(or defects)

Do you really want to pay the costs associated with having a photographer take multiple pictures of every item in their inventory and putting all those pictures online?

 

[Joe Nerve]

One problem with MF and so many others is that they will use a catalog photo of the given bass.Instead of a pic of the actual bass.
So you can't see any actual features(or defects)

Other places only show you the bass past a certain price point. $700 I think?

To be honest, that's also a trade-off for me. I'd much rather have a factory sealed instrument that I KNOW nobody has touched, than one that has been opened, posed for pictures, tinkered with regarding setup, etc. Most factory shipped instruments are pretty flawless, cosmetically - and if not, I'd exchange them anyhow.

 

[mizzou541]

I gotta say that I'm still dumbfounded that more people aren't buying from Musiciansfriend. IT'S THE SAME EXACT INSTRUMENTS YOU'RE GETTING in these other online stores. I get passionate about this for 2 reasons.

1. I don't ever want MF to go out of business.
2. I want to help my fellow bass players.​

At Musiciansfriend you can pretty much always get 15% off (you just have to be willing to call), PLUS and additional 8% if you join their backstage pass club. That's 23% off. Now with the sales tax thing, that's another 9%!

I just bought an American Performer Mustang.

It cost me $938 at Musiciansfriend, after the 15% and 8% Backstage Pass that I'll use to get strings.

If I bought it at elsewhere it would cost me $1,308.

I would have to be a complete fool to spend $370 more.

I don't get it.

The reason I prefer Sweetwater over Musicians Friend is that you can choose your instrument and see what you're getting. I've emailed MF about scratch and dent stuff and they can't even tell you exactly what the blem is. Not sure if they're unable or just unwilling but it's frustrating. You can also email them (Sweetwater) and get close to the same discounts you get at MF. As of my last purchase they still didn't collect sales tax in MO so I actually end up with the same or better deal with them with superior customer service and a better set up instrument out of the gate. Now if they'd only carry G&L...

 

[Watchootognbout]

Do you really want to pay the costs associated with having a photographer take multiple pictures of every item in their inventory and putting all those pictures online?

I've seen many other online stores that don't incure any added cost because of posting a pic of the actual bass.
Digital phone pics are not expensive or hard to upload.