Yeah, the mellow part is bass. The distorted parts are guitars though (I believe, it sounds like it). The mellow part is what most people think is the bass solo in Orion.
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Orion .. why do people say its so hard?
- Thread starter PrimusNut
- Start date
Yeah, the mellow part is bass. The distorted parts are guitars though (I believe, it sounds like it). The mellow part is what most people think is the bass solo in Orion.
The following bass parts are the "difficult" parts:
At 1:41 that is bass playing the fast melodic bit.
At 3:56 we have the introduction of a melodic, slow bass part which is none repetative, in other words almost every play through Cliff plays something different somewhere, same basic shape, but varies.
At 6:35 to 6:55 is ALL bass, no guitar harmonies, all bass with distortion and octave pedal.
At 1:41 that is bass playing the fast melodic bit.
At 3:56 we have the introduction of a melodic, slow bass part which is none repetative, in other words almost every play through Cliff plays something different somewhere, same basic shape, but varies.
At 6:35 to 6:55 is ALL bass, no guitar harmonies, all bass with distortion and octave pedal.
I play the whole song with disitortion exept the interlude, there I use bith of chorus...
At the intro, and both bass solo parts I hit a wah pedal..
here is a great live piece of orion where you can clearly here witch part is bass and how it is played.. Trujillo has lot`s of volume, unlike the original recording..
Bit, not much, too clanky in the interlude, and posible too much volume in wah parts but still good live act..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_zj_6MTALI
At the intro, and both bass solo parts I hit a wah pedal..
here is a great live piece of orion where you can clearly here witch part is bass and how it is played.. Trujillo has lot`s of volume, unlike the original recording..
Bit, not much, too clanky in the interlude, and posible too much volume in wah parts but still good live act..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_zj_6MTALI
I`m quite sure it is not.. if I understand what you mean..
When you listen the song with 5.1 speaker system, you can hear the low bass notesfrom the sub woofer.. Bass is in the back rhytm in that part, or James has very bassy guitar going on
Still I can allways be wrong.....
and from the interview with cliff:
"Q: On the new album I heard some short bass solo type thing where you're using volume pedals. What's that about?
CLIFF: On this album it's the intro to a song called "Damage," done all on bass. It's about eight or 12 tracks of bass, a lot of harmonies and volume swells and effects and stuff. I would hesitate to call it a bass solo, it's more just an intro, but it is all bass. There's also a little bass solo in "Orion," it's right next to a little guitar solo. No one will probably be able to tell that it's bass, but it is. "
It still can be so, he just doesn`t mention it...
whole thing: Link Removed
"Q: On the new album I heard some short bass solo type thing where you're using volume pedals. What's that about?
CLIFF: On this album it's the intro to a song called "Damage," done all on bass. It's about eight or 12 tracks of bass, a lot of harmonies and volume swells and effects and stuff. I would hesitate to call it a bass solo, it's more just an intro, but it is all bass. There's also a little bass solo in "Orion," it's right next to a little guitar solo. No one will probably be able to tell that it's bass, but it is. "
It still can be so, he just doesn`t mention it...
whole thing: Link Removed
Are we talking the recorded version from Master of Puppets here??
I have the official transcription in front of me. At 1:41, the bass is playing 3 notes only - A, E, C, then C, E, A, repeated for 3 bars, the 4th he plays A, E, EE, F, FF, E... until 2:12. He uses the 4th bar to build speed to then follow the fast guitar riff.
At 3:56 is the beautiful melodic bass part. RIP Cliff. Some people call Orion his swan song for this part.
6:35 and again, the bass backs the guitars up.
Thats' according to Wolf Marshall's transcription anyway. Works for me...
very much correct: "At 6:35 to 6:55 is ALL bass, no guitar harmonies, all bass with distortion and octave pedal."
not sure about theoctave pedal.. does it really go so high you need one???
that is in the original record version....
not sure about theoctave pedal.. does it really go so high you need one???
that is in the original record version....
Thats what its all about.Both are very correct as far as I know.I'm working on the solo on Orion that starts at 6 something.Not very hard,but its a solo and I'm a destroyer of "keeping in time",so its hard for me.
I'm not following this and I'm listening to the recording from MOP as I type this.
Are you saying it's the bass playing the solo at 6:35?? Cause at that point I'm hearing a whiney kind of rythm played by a guitar that leads into a pull off solos riff while the bass and rythm guitars are backing it up - according to the book the bass is playing :
A -------------5-5555-2-2222----
E 0-00003-3333------------------
Over an E5, G5, D5, B5 progression.
That's played 4 times, then 2 open E's are played before going back into the A E C, C E A pattern of single notes matching the drums...
Now, are you saying that Cliff played the guitar parts with effects, as well as backed it up playing the E, G, D, B pattern (illegally?) tabbed my me above? **
Got a video of that somewhere?? I would love to understand what you're meaning, and see that. I think I confused myself
** - It's tempting to just scan the page in question for ahhh, educational purposes...but I'm not sure if that's OK so thought better of it so TB wasn't seen to support such actions
I think I have a GP file of Orion that is very close to be correct with bass solo.If interested,feel free to leave a mail adress and I'll send it.
I think I have a GP file of Orion that is very close to be correct with bass solo.If interested,feel free to leave a mail adress and I'll send it.
Thanks.
I have the 5 five Metallica albums transcribed for bass as published by Cherry Lane Music Company.
When the song calls for it, they show multiple bass tracks - The intro to For Whom The Bell Tolls from the Ride the Lighting book is one example where there are 2 tracks listed seperately for the bass at the intro.
They also follow this format for their guitar books. Next time you are in a store, check out One from the AJFA guitar book and see how many guitar parts are transcribed.
No amount of tabs or by ear transcriptions will convince me otherwise. I'm looking at the official books.
But to those playing it that way, more power to you...I have no doubt Cliff could have and probably did play it that way from time to time too.
Why is Orion so hard to play? Because people want to make it harder to play
again Cliff said:
"Orion," it's right next to a little guitar solo. No one will probably be able to tell that it's bass, but it is. "
He meant just that part what comes in at 6:35..
If you listen close you hear it is a bass, no bass backing up just mid scooped guitars... or another bass track which is very very quiet. The tone is chances during the "guitar solo" becoase it swiches to bass...
Watch the video from youtube (posted earlyer) where Rob plays it live.. That is how the song goes on record, tone is just different.
I have not seen a good tab about "Orion", and I have plenty of them..
This is a song what is good for arguing with guitarists who plays which part..
Sound is definatelly guitar like, just like it meant to be.
and orion is not very hard..
lots of songs, from Metallica, which are harder on bass.
Tab? Like I've maintained throughout the discussion I have the original books and IME playing from those books has produced much better results on any Metallica songs than from any tabs I've got off the net.
Why the author wouldn't show that bass part in Orion when in other songs and books he does show mutliple bass tracks where applicable, and a high level of detail throughout the series of books, is beyond my capacity to understand.
But with all that said, I'll still check that video you suggested out, and do a search for that interview with Cliff and try and see where you guys are coming from.
And like I already said I wouldn't be surprised if Cliff did play it that way. I'm just surprised the book author wouldn't put it in the books because the other transcriptions by the same author/publisher are very accurate IMO and IME.
Cheers,
The second part of the solo is bass for sure. Listen to the sound. It changes but just a little bit. Thats Cliffs bass with distortion doing the solo. Allthough I couldnt hear it just now of course there is a possibility that they double tracked the bass.
My take on it is this: There is probably "regular" bass during the whole track (non distorted, following the rythm). But then at times they made the bass to the lead melody like at 01:45. Here we have the distorted bass.
The second part of the solo after the mellow interlude is also bass. probably the regular non distorted bass doing the rythm (with the guitas) and then a main solo on distorted bass (06:35). At 06:45 Cliff have double tracked the bass (tripple tracked it if we count the non-distorted parts) for the classical harmony part of the solo. During that time we have 3 seperate bass tracks. #1 is playing the rythm stuff non-distorted and the other two are playing the solo. Hope that helps. Listen to the song and you'll hear it.
Interesting conversation - I've read all the replys. Orion IS such a beautiful piece! ..Like a symphony or something!
..But there's one thing still on my mind: every time I hear someone say "I dunno why people say that's so hard; I play it easy", I just want nothing more than to hear a recording of that person playing it!
Yeah, it's true - I'm kind'a 'attacking', or at least challenging the poster. but at the same time, there's a chance that this might be the most valuable reply of'em all - and could lead to truly answering a question like "why do bassists with a lot more experience than me say there are difficulties in the part...".
I think of Surf music. The second-to-last band I was with introduced some Surf songs into the show - lemme tell'ya: I was fairly ashamed of my self when we went over the first few! Yeah - back when I had first started playing, I bet I would have said "Surf music is easy", but that would have been before I became sensitive to fine-points of groove feel, and tone consistancy in technique and whatnot. I hadn't worked on'em much in my personal practice - uh.. thinking how "easy" they were... Right after the first count it became evident to me that I was not grooving properly; the groove-feel was more-important than I had thought.
When you're so easily playing the song, are you sure that you're performing it with authority and intimate groove? Maybe THAT's the 'hard-part' other bassists mention!
Joe
..But there's one thing still on my mind: every time I hear someone say "I dunno why people say that's so hard; I play it easy", I just want nothing more than to hear a recording of that person playing it!
Yeah, it's true - I'm kind'a 'attacking', or at least challenging the poster. but at the same time, there's a chance that this might be the most valuable reply of'em all - and could lead to truly answering a question like "why do bassists with a lot more experience than me say there are difficulties in the part...".
I think of Surf music. The second-to-last band I was with introduced some Surf songs into the show - lemme tell'ya: I was fairly ashamed of my self when we went over the first few! Yeah - back when I had first started playing, I bet I would have said "Surf music is easy", but that would have been before I became sensitive to fine-points of groove feel, and tone consistancy in technique and whatnot. I hadn't worked on'em much in my personal practice - uh.. thinking how "easy" they were... Right after the first count it became evident to me that I was not grooving properly; the groove-feel was more-important than I had thought.
When you're so easily playing the song, are you sure that you're performing it with authority and intimate groove? Maybe THAT's the 'hard-part' other bassists mention!
Joe
YOUTUBEYOUTUBEYOUTUBEYOUTUBE!
One of the harshest critics in the world.
Cause they all can play it with their eyes closed
One of the harshest critics in the world.
Cause they all can play it with their eyes closed
Well, thats the case with all music. The main point is that technically Orion isnt all that hard to play. I can play everything except the solo. However, of course I cant duplicate the exact feeling that Cliff had. The point os saying Orion is fairly easy to play is that compared to other songs in the metal genre it is fairly easy to play. But sure, its harder to play than alot of "root-note-on-bass" songs as well.
When I was a beginner bass player I often confused thngs that sounded good with things that were hard to play. I think thi is common. With little knowlege of actually playing something people very often think that something that sound good or sounds fast (like tremolo) is something thats hard to do. Of course we all know that isnt always the case. The hard part would more often to actually write such riffs.
