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Out With The Warwick, In With The ???
- Thread starter RocketMusic
- Start date
Don't do it. I hear it's a tough way to make a livin'.
You got that right, brother!
Of course, it treated Gard so well he was able to retire and play production manager for a small manufacturer with his spare time. He just does it for fun is how I heard it.
You got that right, brother!
Of course, it treated Gard so well he was able to retire and play production manager for a small manufacturer with his spare time. He just does it for fun is how I heard it.
Fun?
FUN?!?!?!??!?!??!!???!??!
...you call THIS fun?
...wait...oh yeah, it is.
Done,lol
Great stuff but you guys are definitely Thread busters!
... I do really love the "Spanglish" thing and Bill's moto "You can have my luck charms, you'll never get my whiskey!" is a real classic.
It should be in your signature Bill!
Uh....wait...what was this thread about????
...wait, now I remember - THE NEW IPODS ARE HERE!!!
Invalid Link Removed
I can't wait for these, I'll finally be cool!
LilRay
Commercial User
- Dec 27, 2007
- 4,166
- 39
- Disclosures
- Owner: Cockeyed Cow Custom Leathercraft
One thing to consider (and perhaps discard) is the company and their business model. One reason I have given money over the past year to Roscoe, Rob Allen, Pete Skjold, and Mike Lull is because they have resisted off-shoring. While I think there are better ways to do this (eg Sadowsky and Fodera's model), and realizing with amps it is almost impossible to avoid, it still gives me pause. Frankly when I was looking for a guitar Suhr dropped off my short list when he announced his off-shored instruments.
Drawing that line in the sand may not make economic sense, and G&L already does this so that line has already been crossed. But we all have choices to make with our money. The majority shop on price alone, but we're not the majority.
Drawing that line in the sand may not make economic sense, and G&L already does this so that line has already been crossed. But we all have choices to make with our money. The majority shop on price alone, but we're not the majority.
We surely wont go off shore...and as of right now we do everything in house including pickups...soon we will also be manufacturing our bridges in house.
I have a lot of respect for the "wood in, basses out" builders. I realize that has plusses and minuses but I'm certainly glad that in this age of walmart and price-focused consumerism we still have small companies willing to buck the trend. I'm willing to help fund that courage.
Ryan is being far too humble here. He even went so far as to try to take on the offshore lines with his own "American" series of instruments which were 100% made in America, and the guitars started under $1000. The bodies were poplar, and the electronics and hardware were pretty good stuff. They were nice instruments, but I think he and we quickly came to the concusion that we were just banging our heads against the wall for not a lot of bottom line bang.
When you've got $400-500 in parts and material (just my guess), and you have to divy up the rest of that $1000 between the manufacturer's AND the retailers overhead and bottom line... well, there's not a lot of excess money to sharpen your saw blades and pay your rent, let alone feed your family.
So that's why I say let Ford be Ford (i.e. Fender), and let Porshe be Porsche (Roscoe, Gadow, Tuttle, Suhr, etc.). Fender is doing things on such a grand scale that they can make the offshore stuff work for them while still keeping a decent portion of the proceeds here in the U.S. And Porsche is doing things with such an attention to detail, they can charge a premium price because they're delivering a premium product. I'm OK with that state of affairs to the extent that I accept that it's just the reality that our society (taxation, regulation, litigation and all the rest of it) creates. Much as I'd love to change things so that there could be a thriving Fender cranking out great $200-400 guitars in So-Cal with dozens/hundreds of american workers, that just ain't gonna happen without a lot of contentious and painful changes.
When you've got $400-500 in parts and material (just my guess), and you have to divy up the rest of that $1000 between the manufacturer's AND the retailers overhead and bottom line... well, there's not a lot of excess money to sharpen your saw blades and pay your rent, let alone feed your family.
So that's why I say let Ford be Ford (i.e. Fender), and let Porshe be Porsche (Roscoe, Gadow, Tuttle, Suhr, etc.). Fender is doing things on such a grand scale that they can make the offshore stuff work for them while still keeping a decent portion of the proceeds here in the U.S. And Porsche is doing things with such an attention to detail, they can charge a premium price because they're delivering a premium product. I'm OK with that state of affairs to the extent that I accept that it's just the reality that our society (taxation, regulation, litigation and all the rest of it) creates. Much as I'd love to change things so that there could be a thriving Fender cranking out great $200-400 guitars in So-Cal with dozens/hundreds of american workers, that just ain't gonna happen without a lot of contentious and painful changes.
Boy, that says it all, don't it? AMEN!
Anyone who's had to scramble to make a payroll (or a property tax payment, or a quarterly income tax/medicare/SS withholding payment, or a state sales tax payment, or an unemployment insurance premium, etc., etc., etc.) is probably telepathically sending you their heartfelt thanks for that sentiment. It does take a big ole set of legumbres to start a biz these days.
Too lazy to read through the entire thread so maybe someone mentioned it already.
Hands down:
Jerzy Drozd
These are nice too:
Overwater
Don't think they currently have anyone selling them in the US.
-PE
Hands down:
Jerzy Drozd
These are nice too:
Overwater
Don't think they currently have anyone selling them in the US.
-PE
Ooo - I forgot about Jerzy Drozd... I wonder if the weak US dollar would mean the same thing for his basses as Warwick (crazy expensive here in the US)? I'll have to look into that...
Never heard of Overwater. More research!
Thanks, Brian!
Hmmmm, another luthier to check out from this part of the world, if you can get around that weak dollar issue, and dosen't have much in the way of US dealers, is Invalid Link Removed. He makes a variety of cool axes, guitars & basses in both electric and acoustic, electric uprights, mandolins. Does jazz box guitars too, and some kind of nylon strung electric guitar, seems like a guitar version of a Rob Allen kinda thing.
Boy, that says it all, don't it? AMEN!
Anyone who's had to scramble to make a payroll (or a property tax payment, or a quarterly income tax/medicare/SS withholding payment, or a state sales tax payment, or an unemployment insurance premium, etc., etc., etc.) is probably telepathically sending you their heartfelt thanks for that sentiment. It does take a big ole set of legumbres to start a biz these days.
I'm feeling it, bro! As a small business owner in the Northeast I know about payroll, taxes, unemployment, etc.., our niche' in business is the more discriminating (ie: wealthy) client who knows what they want and that great service costs real $$. Literally 90% of my work is repeat- based on reputation. Just like the fantastic instruments you sell, the "rep" is why we pay more than Fender, Ibanez, etc,- you get what you pay for & we know if we have any problems you will be there to help.
Quality AMERICAN MADE instruments cost real $$ too.
I suggest you keep your awesome luthiers you already have and consider another Yankee or two.
My 2 cents
Oh, mind if I put this:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
here?
Edit- Bill, I mean zero, no disrespect bro!
Yeah, I consider most of the European (i.e. Western) countries not exactly an extension of the US, but we generally think alike and have similar standards of living. I wouldn't think twice about carrying a European luthier if his stuff is good and affordable despite the vagaries of exchange rates.
It's the Chinas of the world that give me pause. Places where folks are being used pretty badly, and where it's not at all clear that whatever money we send over there might not end up being used against us in one way or another...
Sorry, not trying to go all geo-political in this thread... but I do think the offshore vs. domestic thing is a valid concern (in our country and in others!).
It's the Chinas of the world that give me pause. Places where folks are being used pretty badly, and where it's not at all clear that whatever money we send over there might not end up being used against us in one way or another...
Sorry, not trying to go all geo-political in this thread... but I do think the offshore vs. domestic thing is a valid concern (in our country and in others!).
I know buddy, just an unfortunate coincidence of our posts crossing.
And I totally agree with your post, fwiw.
LilRay
Commercial User
- Dec 27, 2007
- 4,166
- 39
- Disclosures
- Owner: Cockeyed Cow Custom Leathercraft
Boy, that says it all, don't it? AMEN!
Anyone who's had to scramble to make a payroll (or a property tax payment, or a quarterly income tax/medicare/SS withholding payment, or a state sales tax payment, or an unemployment insurance premium, etc., etc., etc.) is probably telepathically sending you their heartfelt thanks for that sentiment. It does take a big ole set of legumbres to start a biz these days.
Hey man, It may take a big ole set of legumbres to start a biz these days, but it takes a Large amount of brain matter and an even larger sense of caring for the customer to KEEP a biz a float ANY DAY.
Starting a biz = The simple part
Keeping a biz more than 90 days = Dang hard
Succeeding at said biz = Overwhelmingly difficult.
You guys have a winning formula. Even customers that can't buy yet (me right now) want to.
As my Pop says, You gotta bend in all directions to succeed, and I personally know of no place I'd rather shop .
Keep on truckin' Greg! As is said Believe the unbelievable so you can receive the unreachable.
God Bless, Ray
From what I've seen of US retailers they seemed on par with e.g. Smith et al. prices.
Overwater are real nice, I had an endorsement for a short while in a previous life. In fact they remind me a lot of Roscoe in terms of customer service. But ya know, that's just my opinion... You'll have be your own judge...
-PE
Wow. When you start trying to whittle it down there is a lot to consider.
With regards to the European builders: No matter how good the product, I suspect the exchange rate will be a losing battle until sanity returms to our GDP vs debt ratio. DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
As far as resale value, Jerry sumed that up best. It depends on where your selling it. To quote Bill Clinton, "It's the economy stupid". Whether it's Lull, Warrior or Roscoe used is a buyer's market because there are so few buyers. Resale is just gonna be tough for a while. It's why so many guys trade right now.
There was a thread over on the Roscoe side where, thanks to Bill, we were playing with variations of The "Standard" line, painted, with and without pickguards, active and passive, differnt pups etc. That might be a good line. Maybe an exclusive. That could apply with the other fine builders you represent as well.
US made seems the way to go given the exchange rate.
Rocket Music proves that there is always a market for new "upper end" basses as long as the service matches up to the product. The bottom line, whatever you choose to represent it will sell be it Lull, Modulus or more of the brands you already offer. Folks want to do business with folks like Rocket when they invest in an instrument. (If these kids ever get out of college I'm headed your way)
Okay that post was way too long. Good Night All and Good Luck Greg.
With regards to the European builders: No matter how good the product, I suspect the exchange rate will be a losing battle until sanity returms to our GDP vs debt ratio. DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
As far as resale value, Jerry sumed that up best. It depends on where your selling it. To quote Bill Clinton, "It's the economy stupid". Whether it's Lull, Warrior or Roscoe used is a buyer's market because there are so few buyers. Resale is just gonna be tough for a while. It's why so many guys trade right now.
There was a thread over on the Roscoe side where, thanks to Bill, we were playing with variations of The "Standard" line, painted, with and without pickguards, active and passive, differnt pups etc. That might be a good line. Maybe an exclusive. That could apply with the other fine builders you represent as well.
US made seems the way to go given the exchange rate.
Rocket Music proves that there is always a market for new "upper end" basses as long as the service matches up to the product. The bottom line, whatever you choose to represent it will sell be it Lull, Modulus or more of the brands you already offer. Folks want to do business with folks like Rocket when they invest in an instrument. (If these kids ever get out of college I'm headed your way)
Okay that post was way too long. Good Night All and Good Luck Greg.
I second all the good remarks about Lull basses - great instruments built by a wonderful craftsman and helluva nice guy.
I hear good things about the Low End basses, though haven't actually tried one.
And there's this Brazilian guy, Eliezer Lara, who somehow I got to be friends with on Facebook who's building some beautiful looking instruments - haven't tried or even heard one, but take a look: Link Removed
I hear good things about the Low End basses, though haven't actually tried one.
And there's this Brazilian guy, Eliezer Lara, who somehow I got to be friends with on Facebook who's building some beautiful looking instruments - haven't tried or even heard one, but take a look: Link Removed
