Outboard effects with an A&H Mixwizard

[73jbass]

Going to be running foh for a local band on a regular basis,and I have a couple of outboard effects I'd like to use,but dont understand where to make the connections. The user guide doesnt provide any diagram. I have a Lexicon unit that has reverbs on one channel,and delays on the other. Also want to use a DBX 160a for a bit of compression. This board doesnt have an Effects loop and the guide doesnt specifically tell how to do it. Thanks!

 

[s0c9]

Idk which mixwiz (2, 3, or 4) you have, but you can use the onboard effects - they're not bad, or turn them off and use AUX 5/6 (yellow knobs) as send levels from each channel.
IIRC, you bring them back into ST1/ST2 inputs..
ST1/ST2 (effects return mix) levels are controlled from top right of console.

 

[walterw]

OK, here's how you do this:

the built-in reverb of the board is fine, just use that (set the board to "dual mode" with that little recessed button, for reverb on aux 5 and delays on aux 6).

use your rack thing just for delay, by running the aux 6 out into the delay unit then the delay unit out into channel 16. set the delay unit itself for all delay, no dry signal at all.

the idea is you'll mostly set the reverb (for drums and acoustic instruments) and leave it alone, while the delay will be used on vocals (bring up aux 6 on each vocal channel) and you'll want to adjust the delay time from the rack unit front panel, and turn it up or down depending on the song or even shut it off between songs by working the ch16 fader.

as for that comp, it's a nice unit if you run it right.

don't run the whole mix through it, that's stupid, the whole band will get louder and quieter if the singer belts a hard note or not.

here's the trick for compressing vox on a 'wiz (the best thing you can do with it): pan all your vocals all the way over to one side, pan everything else all the way over to the other side, use an "insert cable" to put the compressor into the "L-R main insert" on the same side the vocals are on, then use the mono out to go to the PA.

this way that nice 160 is used to smooth out the vocals like it excels at, while not squashing the instruments and not affecting the monitor aux mixes.

 

[Zooberwerx]

OK, here's how you do this:

the built-in reverb of the board is fine, just use that (set the board to "dual mode" with that little recessed button, for reverb on aux 5 and delays on aux 6).

use your rack thing just for delay, by running the aux 6 out into the delay unit then the delay unit out into channel 16. set the delay unit itself for all delay, no dry signal at all.

the idea is you'll mostly set the reverb (for drums and acoustic instruments) and leave it alone, while the delay will be used on vocals (bring up aux 6 on each vocal channel) and you'll want to adjust the delay time from the rack unit front panel, and turn it up or down depending on the song or even shut it off between songs by working the ch16 fader.

as for that comp, it's a nice unit if you run it right.

don't run the whole mix through it, that's stupid, the whole band will get louder and quieter if the singer belts a hard note or not.

here's the trick for compressing vox on a 'wiz (the best thing you can do with it): pan all your vocals all the way over to one side, pan everything else all the way over to the other side, use an "insert cable" to put the compressor into the "L-R main insert" on the same side the vocals are on, then use the mono out to go to the PA.

this way that nice 160 is used to smooth out the vocals like it excels at, while not squashing the instruments and not affecting the monitor aux mixes.

A good refresher! I always have a hard time judging what delay parameters / levels work best when adding ambience without losing the natural character.

Riis

 

[73jbass]

Thanks! I'm putting the system back together this evening. Just the info I needed.

 

[73jbass]

OK, here's how you do this:

the built-in reverb of the board is fine, just use that (set the board to "dual mode" with that little recessed button, for reverb on aux 5 and delays on aux 6).

use your rack thing just for delay, by running the aux 6 out into the delay unit then the delay unit out into channel 16. set the delay unit itself for all delay, no dry signal at all.

the idea is you'll mostly set the reverb (for drums and acoustic instruments) and leave it alone, while the delay will be used on vocals (bring up aux 6 on each vocal channel) and you'll want to adjust the delay time from the rack unit front panel, and turn it up or down depending on the song or even shut it off between songs by working the ch16 fader.

as for that comp, it's a nice unit if you run it right.

don't run the whole mix through it, that's stupid, the whole band will get louder and quieter if the singer belts a hard note or not.

here's the trick for compressing vox on a 'wiz (the best thing you can do with it): pan all your vocals all the way over to one side, pan everything else all the way over to the other side, use an "insert cable" to put the compressor into the "L-R main insert" on the same side the vocals are on, then use the mono out to go to the PA.

this way that nice 160 is used to smooth out the vocals like it excels at, while not squashing the instruments and not affecting the monitor aux mixes.

Thank you so much! That makes sense. I will be using a Lexicon mx200. I run their mix in mono so using the DBX like that is perfect. Wish that A&H would provide diagrams on how to set this stuff up. Thas again!

 

[Zooberwerx]

Thank you so much! That makes sense. I will be using a Lexicon mx200. I run their mix in mono so using the DBX like that is perfect. Wish that A&H would provide diagrams on how to set this stuff up. Thas again!

Interested in the outcome of this one as I have a similar set-up.

Riis

 

[73jbass]

I'll be using it Saturday afternoon. I will let you know the outcome.

 

[73jbass]

Ok. I tried panning the vocals to the left and everything else on the right. Got very low output on vocals so I put everything back to center. Got some nice reverb and comp on the snare ,and reverb on vocals.Wasn't getting response on the faders it seemed like.Now I see what they always use compression on drums. Magic! It needs more tweaking obviously,But I'll get it right. Going to work on it this week. Walterw,think you might be available for a phone call sometime this week?

 

[walterw]

the volume loss means you didn't have the compressor set right! set the ratio to 4:1, set the threshold to where you only get 3 or 4 red lights with regular singing, and adjust the output gain to where the vocals are about the same volume whether you're panned into the compressor or out of it.

compressing drums is a whole different thing, i wouldn't mess with that unless you have some huge PA where you're not even hearing the drums on stage.

 

[Frankjohnson]

I am watching this - I have a very similar setup - and this is good insight

 

[73jbass]

Just discoverd the "insert" cable.Its amazing what you can learn if you do some actual research! What I did was buy 3 stereo rack compressors,and I have compression on both lead vocals and the drum kit. I also just discovered the wonderful trick of using my boards high pass filter on the kick drum to eliminate resonance. Really tightened it up! Using a Lexicon effects through channels 15 and 16. Also,the Palmer PDI 09 is a great DI box for a guitarist using a Line 6 floor board.

 

[walterw]

I also just discovered the wonderful trick of using my boards high pass filter on the kick drum to eliminate resonance. Really tightened it up!

Ehh, usually the kick is the one thing you don't want hi-passed.

The thing to do is leave it off and fix it, balancing your system and EQ'ing the channel right. Typically this means a low-mid scoop on the channel strip, somewhere between like 100Hz and 300Hz, to clean up the boomy, flappy part of the sound.

 

[73jbass]

None of that worked.Been struggling with ringing on the kick and floor tom. This kick drum doesn't have a port,and the drummer is clueless about tuning drums properly. Might keep trying the noise gate and see if that helps.

 

[walterw]

This kick drum doesn't have a port, and the drummer is clueless about tuning drums properly.

then you're mostly screwed

gates will indeed help, and you can get away with hi-passing the floor tom and nobody will care. with the kick, try hi-pass off, lows boosted a bit (like 2:00), low mid level cut way back to like 9:00, then sweep the low-mid frequency knob between like 100Hz and 300Hz, looking for the spot where it scoops out the most flubby, woofy mess. high mids and highs you can boost a little to taste, too much and you get annoyingly fake clicky "metal" kick drum.

get them both EQ'ed to where they're tolerable, then bring up the gate threshold to shorten the sustain to where they're under control.

is this a "real" PA with subs and all that?

 

[Geri O]

OK, here's how you do this:

the built-in reverb of the board is fine, just use that (set the board to "dual mode" with that little recessed button, for reverb on aux 5 and delays on aux 6).

use your rack thing just for delay, by running the aux 6 out into the delay unit then the delay unit out into channel 16. set the delay unit itself for all delay, no dry signal at all.

the idea is you'll mostly set the reverb (for drums and acoustic instruments) and leave it alone, while the delay will be used on vocals (bring up aux 6 on each vocal channel) and you'll want to adjust the delay time from the rack unit front panel, and turn it up or down depending on the song or even shut it off between songs by working the ch16 fader.

as for that comp, it's a nice unit if you run it right.

don't run the whole mix through it, that's stupid, the whole band will get louder and quieter if the singer belts a hard note or not.

here's the trick for compressing vox on a 'wiz (the best thing you can do with it): pan all your vocals all the way over to one side, pan everything else all the way over to the other side, use an "insert cable" to put the compressor into the "L-R main insert" on the same side the vocals are on, then use the mono out to go to the PA.

this way that nice 160 is used to smooth out the vocals like it excels at, while not squashing the instruments and not affecting the monitor aux mixes.

Walter rocks! The end.

 

[walterw]

Walter rocks! The end.

What I did was buy 3 stereo rack compressors,and I have compression on both lead vocals and the drum kit.

if you inserted those comps right into the channel inserts on the vocals, then you're compressing those singers' monitor mixes, a Very Bad Thing. that's the purpose of the LR insert thing i was talking about, to keep from squashing the monitor auxes. besides, unless you bought some fancy comps, that 160 is probably better, so it should have star duty on all the vocals.

assuming these comps also have gates, use just the gates on the kick and the toms (not the snare). it's fine to insert those right in the channels.

 

[73jbass]

Very little compression on the vocals. Just enough to take out the peaks. I'll just start all over again on the kick. Its an unusual front head without a large port. It has a bunch of small ports around the edge of the head. Where would you suggest locating the mic? It was about 2" off center at the last gig.

 

[Geri O]

Very little compression on the vocals. Just enough to take out the peaks. I'll just start all over again on the kick. Its an unusual front head without a large port. It has a bunch of small ports around the edge of the head. Where would you suggest locating the mic? It was about 2" off center at the last gig.

I've mic'ed a lot of kick drums, hole and no hole. Oddly enough, I've never seen a head as the one you describe.

So much of mic'ing instruments calls for experimenting with placement, such as that kick from you are dealing with. I'd experiment with the mic placement. You could get several suggestions, but it's hard to say if the situations are the same as yours. Place it where it was, try the mic on one of the holes, and somewhere in between.

Kick drum heads with no holes sound great when playing the kit and in low-volume gigs like jazz, laid-back music and the like. But it's very difficult to get the contemporary kick drum sound without the 6-to-8-inch hole somewhere on the (non-beater) head. I'm not going to debate the merits of either situation. A solid-head drummer will extoll the virtues of no hole all day and I'll listen politely and in agreement. And hope they will listen to my side of the debate about kick drum volume, solid attack tone, and all of that (but usually, they won't. So we just do the best we can, safe in the knowledge that no one will die, and call it a day).

 

[73jbass]

This is the resonator head. Drum Workshop

It sounds good acoustically,but cant get clean bottom end through the pa without using the high pass filter.