On the other side of bassists deserving more "props",I am curious to know who you think gets too much credit. The only one that instantly comes to mind is Les Claypool. I like Primus but I think his technique is sloppy. He is different but I can't listen to him for too long.I'm interested to know what everyone's opinion is.
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Overrated bass players
- Thread starter Bryan
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What happened to all of the overrated bassists? It's a conspiracy against me! Some that were mentioned by other members (and myself) before (and in no particular order) Tom Hamilton, Jason Newsted, Stu Hamm, and YES Victor Wooten.
Totally agree with that one! Whe Korn first came out I thought it was good to have a bassist in that style "out there" and heard but I thought his sound was thin. Turn out he wanted it that way because it hasn't changed and neither have his bass "lines?". However in my opinion most rock/metal bassist are overrated because that style has less emphasis on instruction, it's more by the seat of your pants. That's O.K 'cause I used to play that style but people change.
Granted, I don't have a single record with Rudy Sarzo...nevertheless, there's an interview with him in this month's BASS FRONTIERS mag(Wooten cover)that put him into a "different" light as far as my prejudging a guy goes. Check it out & you'll see what I mean.
Remember the time BASS PLAYER mag put Nikki Sixx on a cover? The next issue's "letters to the editor" had one comment that was classic...the reader said he used that picture to show his students "How NOT to hold a bass".
In Brian's original thread...it was me that put out Jason Newstead & Jeff Ament's names. I was just wonderin' WHY these guys are considered "favorites" by some.
Scottzo...great line about Duck Dunn!
[This message has been edited by JimK (edited January 20, 2000).]
Remember the time BASS PLAYER mag put Nikki Sixx on a cover? The next issue's "letters to the editor" had one comment that was classic...the reader said he used that picture to show his students "How NOT to hold a bass".
In Brian's original thread...it was me that put out Jason Newstead & Jeff Ament's names. I was just wonderin' WHY these guys are considered "favorites" by some.
Scottzo...great line about Duck Dunn!
[This message has been edited by JimK (edited January 20, 2000).]
Paul-"OK", I'll bite...Why?
You don't think Paul Mac raised the bar for Pop/Rock bass playing? Even just a "little"?
Try playing "I Saw Her Standing There"...yeah, it's just a very basic Rock n Roll tune, however, a pretty darn good warmup for your plucking hand.
Later...
You don't think Paul Mac raised the bar for Pop/Rock bass playing? Even just a "little"?
Try playing "I Saw Her Standing There"...yeah, it's just a very basic Rock n Roll tune, however, a pretty darn good warmup for your plucking hand.
Later...
I, too, really do want to hear why Paul Mc is suggested as an overrated bassist. In an open forum you can have an opinion, but you gotta defend your viewpoint...
Hi,
O.K. I'm not going to try and defend this,I can honestly say that I personally NEVER liked a single thing the Beatles ever did,I never bought any of their records,not even Sgt Peppers.I thought that at that time McCartney "Eclipsed" and to a certain extent,got in the way of, other Bassists who had far more to offer I.E. John Entwistle,Bill Wyman etc. O.K. maybe not in terms of songwriting ability,but they had a hell of a lot more technique.As you say,probably just a personal thing.
O.K. I'm not going to try and defend this,I can honestly say that I personally NEVER liked a single thing the Beatles ever did,I never bought any of their records,not even Sgt Peppers.I thought that at that time McCartney "Eclipsed" and to a certain extent,got in the way of, other Bassists who had far more to offer I.E. John Entwistle,Bill Wyman etc. O.K. maybe not in terms of songwriting ability,but they had a hell of a lot more technique.As you say,probably just a personal thing.
Im on the devils side of the fence on this one. Paul Mc has stated how much he was influenced by Jamersons Motown work see the Standing in the Shadows book and CD. That being true, I wonder why folks are impressed with such a poor imitation of the real stuff. In his favor he is an important part of Americana even as a Brit. Like others from GB, the Beatles took concepts from American R&B and repackaged it in a way that was safe mainstream popular culture. Good job there! I like a lot of hooks he put to the tunes, but to me this says more about him as a composer of pop music than being a great musician.
Music hall of fame=YES
Bassist hall of fame=NO WAY
jc
Music hall of fame=YES
Bassist hall of fame=NO WAY
jc
...McCartney...BAD..?........can't... compute... .....must...BREATHE.......opposing viewpoint...logical, yet... BLASPHEMOUS..........can't...ghghg...pthth....
I know McCartney gives a lot of credit to "the guy from Motown"(Jamerson)...really, though, except for MAYBE a couple tunes, I don't hear McCartney as a "poor imitation of the real thing". Jamerson was coming out of the upright/jazz vibe whereas McCartney was a guitarist who was into R&B, skiffle, & (later)some avant garde jazz. Honestly, my appreciation for McCartney grew as I got more "learned"...yeah, he's not real flashy-but, hey, there's another thread at this site that talks about "keeping it simple".
Entwhistle, like Jack Bruce, played in a band unlike The Beatles...both The Who & Cream used only THREE instruments; as a result, the respective bassists had a lot more room/freedom to "pull out the stops".
Bill Wyman? I honestly can't think of anybody that cites him as an influence. He's a decent enough player; I know he didn't float my boat.
Entwhistle, like Jack Bruce, played in a band unlike The Beatles...both The Who & Cream used only THREE instruments; as a result, the respective bassists had a lot more room/freedom to "pull out the stops".
Bill Wyman? I honestly can't think of anybody that cites him as an influence. He's a decent enough player; I know he didn't float my boat.
But, Is he great? I must say he has great tone and is able to sing and play bass well. George Martin was great, but thats off topic. Paul McBass player does put on a good show, was good to Linda, and is a great guy.
My idea about a great player is one who takes the state of the art and expands it. I DONT see where this happened. Perhaps he took the art to new hights in simplisity(sp?)Perhaps I will someday be learned enough to understand true greatness. By then will I stop talking about it and just do it?
Oh... I almost forgot, we are on the BG side of the board. Perhaps that narrows the field enough to let paul pass for a god! >
How about great for a left handed g**tar player who was lumbered on the bass, came out of Liverpool needing a hair cut, and made do in a two g**tar band? Ill buy that.
I stand corrected then...whew!
Sorry... hope never to take the devils side again,
jc
PS no disrespect ...gosh I hope he wont see this crap!
My idea about a great player is one who takes the state of the art and expands it. I DONT see where this happened. Perhaps he took the art to new hights in simplisity(sp?)Perhaps I will someday be learned enough to understand true greatness. By then will I stop talking about it and just do it?
Oh... I almost forgot, we are on the BG side of the board. Perhaps that narrows the field enough to let paul pass for a god! >
How about great for a left handed g**tar player who was lumbered on the bass, came out of Liverpool needing a hair cut, and made do in a two g**tar band? Ill buy that.
I stand corrected then...whew!
Sorry... hope never to take the devils side again,
jc
PS no disrespect ...gosh I hope he wont see this crap!
Rockinjc-I love opposing views; keep them acoming!;-) IMO, though, nobody here is deifying Paul McCartney. What I'm not about is making a blanket statement & then NOT backing it up...for thar era in Pop/Rock, I'm sorry, I feel Mac raised the bar as to what a bassist "could" do; again, I'm talking IN A POP/ROCK genre. You talk about "...taking the state of the art & expanding it"...Question-what was the "state of the art" in Pop/Rock bass at that time? True, Jamerson was setting the tone for Pop/R&B. Anyway, the Fender bass was barely a decade old at that time...right? My point is there wasn't a lot of tradition happenin' just yet.
Too, I'm probably looking at the "Paul-as-MUSICIAN" angle...really, I could care less about the BASS-ONLY side of the equation. IMO(again), they're one & the same.
Later...
Too, I'm probably looking at the "Paul-as-MUSICIAN" angle...really, I could care less about the BASS-ONLY side of the equation. IMO(again), they're one & the same.
Later...
do I smell jealousy here? all of the players mentioned here are truly innovators who changed the way we all look at bass playing as we know it.not to mention they are all making a good living at what they love to do,which is more than I can say for the rest of us...myself included.we all wish we were the being talked about on this board instead of doin the talkin..(dont deny it, you know it's true)so to say that that the latest guy or gal to appear on the cover of your favorite bass magazine is "over rated" is got to be the most ignorant statement I've ever seen posted on this board.I know opinions are like a**%#@!s, everybodys got one. but you should be ashamed of yourselves to put down someone who achived way more than most of us ever will in our lifetime.just a little friendly fire
Rekesbass-I don't feel it's jealousy...just healthy discourse. About the "jealousy" thing, though...yeah, maybe about 20-something years ago, it bugged me to hear certain players out there getting it. I got over that as I have seen some very heavy local cats not going anywhere...Full-time players, too. A good example is Victor Wooten or even Oteil Burbridge...currently, EVERYBODY knows these guys-fact: they were both relatively "obscure" here in Va. for awhile. How about Keith Horne or Quentin Berry...ever hear of them? Fact: they can literally play circles around most of the bass "owners" that get the ink. Lest we forget, music also has the BUSINESS side.
I mean, c'mon...Nikki Sixx ain't gonna show anybody anything remotely "artistic" about playing the electric bass.
Really, it's all relative...I'm in "semi-retirement"-I'm really "burned out" from the all-original band thing from about 4 years back + the day job of 6am-3pm...I ain't gettin' any younger, you know? Too, I had two very different gig offers this week...turned them down-I'm just at the point where I'm attempting to get as "good as I'm supposed to be" & if that's not good enough for somebody...then tough spumoni.
Later...(& awaiting return fire ;-)
I mean, c'mon...Nikki Sixx ain't gonna show anybody anything remotely "artistic" about playing the electric bass.
Really, it's all relative...I'm in "semi-retirement"-I'm really "burned out" from the all-original band thing from about 4 years back + the day job of 6am-3pm...I ain't gettin' any younger, you know? Too, I had two very different gig offers this week...turned them down-I'm just at the point where I'm attempting to get as "good as I'm supposed to be" & if that's not good enough for somebody...then tough spumoni.
Later...(& awaiting return fire ;-)
rockinjc --
If we are to accept your definition of a great player as one who expands the state of the art, you GOTTA take Mac as an innovator at least. As I mentioned in lost threads, the term "lead bass" was coined for Paul and Jack Bruce -- a thing that nobody was really doing then (at least in pop rock). Surely that deserves at least an honorable mention?
If we are to accept your definition of a great player as one who expands the state of the art, you GOTTA take Mac as an innovator at least. As I mentioned in lost threads, the term "lead bass" was coined for Paul and Jack Bruce -- a thing that nobody was really doing then (at least in pop rock). Surely that deserves at least an honorable mention?
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