Owerwhelmed with Reviews - Beginner Needs Help

[KVS]

Hello People!

Recently had my bass. Since then, I am keep searching on internet for right amp and cab. I already read a lot of topics here on talkbass and learn a lot about cabs, amps and issues like matching them. Thanks to this research, I came up with a conclusion about the set which will serve me best. However, I am a beginner who is currently abroad for postgraduate studies and less than a year I will be back to homeland. That makes everything more complicated than finding a right gear for yourself.

My ideal decision would be Phil Jones C4 cab, match it with PJ D400 and be happy forever. I had few chances to hear those cabs and love it so much. However, they are not the cheapest amp on the market. If I will have such a cab I am going to sell it in less than a year since taking it home with other stuff of mine will cost exactly same amount of money with the price tag (with same reason I do not want to go for some small combo just for practice and sell it later. That would be great to waste less money and invest on the things I would like to keep and use more) On the other hand, the little brother C2 is super compact and can find one of my big luggages on the way back home (or even as cabin luggage). Meanwhile, here abroad, it can serve me as practice amp. When I will be at home, I can go for another C2 and complete the set.

At that point amp head becomes an issue. Anything will be more powerful than I need for C2 which 200W only (Of course it would be ok whenever I will have a pair of C2, but for a year..) will be risky or useless (there were many warning here about over power for matching heads and cabs) So I started to look some alternatives. Especially affordable ones, so in the case of sell I am going to waste small amount. If there will be a head which can serve me here and also at home with pair of C2, that would be dream. Here is the list of the heads I found in EU market with the price tag I am ready to waste some part of it;

Warwick Gnome i (pro)
There were many positive reviews about it. Also usb thing looks advantage.

TC Electronic BQ250

Hartke TX 300
One friend of mine mentioned this. He is using it as a power amp. Skip everything on amp and shape his tone with his preamp pedal from his pedalboard. Sounds also nice, but as a beginner cannot be sure if it will be the best idea.

Probably it is way longer than it should be. However, you probably know how things look like for a beginner, apologies. I will be glad for any recommendation, thanks already!

 

[Aloe]

at 8 ohms the Gnome I pro is only 180W, so it's a perfect match for one or two C2 cabs. it will sound differently than a Phil Jones head tho.

if your dream cab is a C4 or two, get the BP-800 and don't think twice. the cab is 400W, the head is 400W/8ohms and 800W/4ohms (2 cabs, 400W each).

one more note: tastes change over the time. if now you love the Phil Jones gear, a year later you could find you're into something else. maybe get a practice amp now and return to the big expensive head when you'll get some idea, what do you actually prefer? Phil Jones BG-75 is a killer little combo and may better suit you while you're studying abroad. Warwick BC80 is also very nice and can be had dirt-cheap in EU, but bulkier of course. none of these are really gig-grade, but maybe you don't need a 30kg stack worth of 1500 euro to gig right now?

 

[basscooker]

What is your general location now?

Are there power supply differences between your current location and your home?

Modular rigs are great, but an inxpensive small combo may prove easier. Yes you'll only get 50-60% back on resale, but your initial investment will be much lower. Like Rumble 100 or Rocket bass or Hartke, GK 112

 

[KVS]

at 8 ohms the Gnome I pro is only 180W, so it's a perfect match for one or two C2 cabs. it will sound differently than a Phil Jones head tho.

if your dream cab is a C4 or two, get the BP-800 and don't think twice. the cab is 400W, the head is 400W/8ohms and 800W/4ohms (2 cabs, 400W each).

one more note: tastes change over the time. if now you love the Phil Jones gear, a year later you could find you're into something else. maybe get a practice amp now and return to the big expensive head when you'll get some idea, what do you actually prefer? Phil Jones BG-75 is a killer little combo and may better suit you while you're studying abroad. Warwick BC80 is also very nice and can be had dirt-cheap in EU, but bulkier of course. none of these are really gig-grade, but maybe you don't need a 30kg stack worth of 1500 euro to gig right now?

My dream cab is C4 or pair of C2. I believe I am not going to need anything larger anytime. I am 30 years old beginner and very likely will never have a gig which requires something larger 4x5 I am planing to built. All I need experiment and record by myself and have some small gigs with my musician friends in garden or small pub events.

I will consider Gnome since you mentioned as a good match. Thanks alredy!

 

[Aloe]

My dream cab is C4 or pair of C2.

pair of C2s is 400W/4ohm (a 400W amp), but one C4 is 400W/8ohm (a 800W amp for same results). and you cannot use three or four C2s with a Phil Jones amp like BP-800 or D-400, but you can use two C4s.

and yes, one C4 (or a pair of C2s) is not that loud, frankly. you may want two C4s for a gig even it's not that loud.

 

[KVS]

What is your general location now?

Are there power supply differences between your current location and your home?

Modular rigs are great, but an inxpensive small combo may prove easier. Yes you'll only get 50-60% back on resale, but your initial investment will be much lower. Like Rumble 100 or Rocket bass or Hartke, GK 112

Both locations are in Europe, so no power supply differences.

I take a look and combos like fender rumble costs only 150euros cheaper then C2 + heads like gnome. Same with hartke kickback 12. And second hand market is not wide and affordable as US market.

Thank you tho.

 

[Bassquest]

As a beginner don't bite off more than you can chew. Small combo like the Hartke mentioned will do.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

If you're new to this, how do you know what you want? I'm not being obtuse, just stating that you may well change your mind soon after trying things.

If you're travelling at times you might need to minimise weight. Separating the preamp from the power stage might be worth considering more than combining amp with cab. You get more choices that way. Dedicated all-in-one devices are only convenient if you are certain they'll meet a need, rather than a want.

Buying used will save you money, less loss on resale if you change again.

Making sure you match impedance for power stage and cab matters more than matching power, because you'll rarely be pushing all the power a cab can take, for the simple reason that if you try that a lot, you'll probably damage the cab. They usually can't take all the electrical power anyway, you'll hit physical, mechanical limits first, and those are hard to quantify.

Don't agonise over power, it's better to get the cab you want, then a clean power amp, then experiment with preamps, or maybe multi-effects intended for use with bass and guitar signals.

The one thing you can probably guarantee is that you'll make choices based on what you try, so make it as easy and cheap as possible to try stuff. Learn the few things that are common to all contexts, then work outwards from there.

Reviews for specific hardware will always be bewildering if you don't sort out the core principles and the context you need them to work in.

There IS one fast way, if you have an existing precedent, someone established at doing what you need done: copy them. Then figure out what if any specifics you need to change, and why.

 

[KVS]

If you're new to this, how do you know what you want? I'm not being obtuse, just stating that you may well change your mind soon after trying things.

If you're travelling at times you might need to minimise weight. Separating the preamp from the power stage might be worth considering more than combining amp with cab. You get more choices that way. Dedicated all-in-one devices are only convenient if you are certain they'll meet a need, rather than a want.

Buying used will save you money, less loss on resale if you change again.

Making sure you match impedance for power stage and cab matters more than matching power, because you'll rarely be pushing all the power a cab can take, for the simple reason that if you try that a lot, you'll probably damage the cab. They usually can't take all the electrical power anyway, you'll hit physical, mechanical limits first, and those are hard to quantify.

Don't agonise over power, it's better to get the cab you want, then a clean power amp, then experiment with preamps, or maybe multi-effects intended for use with bass and guitar signals.

The one thing you can probably guarantee is that you'll make choices based on what you try, so make it as easy and cheap as possible to try stuff. Learn the few things that are common to all contexts, then work outwards from there.

Reviews for specific hardware will always be bewildering if you don't sort out the core principles and the context you need them to work in.

There IS one fast way, if you have an existing precedent, someone established at doing what you need done: copy them. Then figure out what if any specifics you need to change, and why.

You are totally right and I do appreciate all warnings to a beginner.

However, I have slightly different condition than super exited teenager who will be lost in gears. I am visual artist and my main medium is photography. I have quite good experience about being gear nerd and time-money waste during resales. Also watch and learn by my musician friends' mistakes.

That is why I did my homework really well this time. Already tried many cabs with the same guitar I recently purchased. The only thing I could not see that is coming; change of the costs in logistics (almost doubled since last year and I have many big prints, frames etc) So were desperately looking for a solution for my problem due to weight I should decrease.

Thanks to your massage I do understand that it is right path to have cab+head formula due to weight. And should consider power amp + pedal solution once again. Thank you!

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

You are totally right and I do appreciate all warnings to a beginner.

However, I have slightly different condition than super exited teenager who will be lost in gears. I am visual artist and my main medium is photography. I have quite good experience about being gear nerd and time-money waste during resales. Also watch and learn by my musician friends' mistakes.

That is why I did my homework really well this time. Already tried many cabs with the same guitar I recently purchased. The only thing I could not see that is coming; change of the costs in logistics (almost doubled since last year and I have many big prints, frames etc) So were desperately looking for a solution for my problem due to weight I should decrease.

Thanks to your massage I do understand that it is right path to have cab+head formula due to weight. And should consider power amp + pedal solution once again. Thank you!

You're welcome. I admit my post was kind of generic, based on the title. I realised I couldn't advise anything very specific (and maybe most people might do that) so I went with general.

Based now on what you said about weight, it may be that the division of preamp and power stage might be your best point to look deeper. It gives you the most choices too. There are general purpose Class D power amps like IMG Stageline STA-400D, based on Hypex modules, and the odds are if you bought one you'll always have some use for it. Matching impedance to cab is vital, but once you have that you can explore any of the preamps and effects methods out there. As well as dramatically limiting weight of power stage, this gives you the best choice of everything else.

There are bass players with decades of experience who are coming round to this method, not least because the notion of feeding DI signals direct to front of house sound comes with the territory, it's a method that might be the least likely to cause trouble later. It is easier to scale it too, to meet whatever situation you might later find yourself in.

I've seen people say 'small combo, can't go wrong', only to get replies saying 'small combo is the first thing to impose limits on the next choice'. The only way to avoid that conundrum is to build scalability in early. For me, the first rule of 'scalability' is 'modularity'. Fortunately when it comes to multi-effects, lots of those modules exist in one package, which is why I like them. (Others swear by dedicated pedals, but that's a very deep rabbit hole I never wanted to get lost in.)

The critical thing is that with a Class D power stage separate from all, you get to choose between all the other stuff with very few restrictions, and probably the lowest weight too.


EDIT:
You mentioned pedals, but that can get expensive fast... One nice thing about multi-effects devices is they start with a practical order of effects, and enough controls to make basic setups faster to do, and all the settings get stored in one patch, you can copy, compare... If at that point it looks like pedals are a better way to go, you'll have a head start in choosing them, saving money, time, etc. I found a rack unit that I could coerce into getting the tone detail I wanted, so I didn't have to look further. It's old, rare, so I won't recommend it here, I'll just say I bought backups. Had to do a few repairs but it was worth it.

 

[KVS]

You're welcome. I admit my post was kind of generic, based on the title. I realised I couldn't advise anything very specific (and maybe most people might do that) so I went with general.

Based now on what you said about weight, it may be that the division of preamp and power stage might be your best point to look deeper. It gives you the most choices too. There are general purpose Class D power amps like IMG Stageline STA-400D, based on Hypex modules, and the odds are if you bought one you'll always have some use for it. Matching impedance to cab is vital, but once you have that you can explore any of the preamps and effects methods out there. As well as dramatically limiting weight of power stage, this gives you the best choice of everything else.

There are bass players with decades of experience who are coming round to this method, not least because the notion of feeding DI signals direct to front of house sound comes with the territory, it's a method that might be the least likely to cause trouble later. It is easier to scale it too, to meet whatever situation you might later find yourself in.

I've seen people say 'small combo, can't go wrong', only to get replies saying 'small combo is the first thing to impose limits on the next choice'. The only way to avoid that conundrum is to build scalability in early. For me, the first rule of 'scalability' is 'modularity'. Fortunately when it comes to multi-effects, lots of those modules exist in one package, which is why I like them. (Others swear by dedicated pedals, but that's a very deep rabbit hole I never wanted to get lost in.)

The critical thing is that with a Class D power stage separate from all, you get to choose between all the other stuff with very few restrictions, and probably the lowest weight too.


EDIT:
You mentioned pedals, but that can get expensive fast... One nice thing about multi-effects devices is they start with a practical order of effects, and enough controls to make basic setups faster to do, and all the settings get stored in one patch, you can copy, compare... If at that point it looks like pedals are a better way to go, you'll have a head start in choosing them, saving money, time, etc. I found a rack unit that I could coerce into getting the tone detail I wanted, so I didn't have to look further. It's old, rare, so I won't recommend it here, I'll just say I bought backups. Had to do a few repairs but it was worth it.

Thank you so much, you were super helpful. Especially for specific power amp example. I saw a lot of topic here and on you tube like "ready to amp-less?" or "do you really need a head?". However, these kind of topics were not easy to follow as cab-head matching. There were not much youtube tutorial as well. I found my new homework thanks to your help

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Thank you so much, you were super helpful. Especially for specific power amp example. I saw a lot of topic here and on you tube like "ready to amp-less?" or "do you really need a head?". However, these kind of topics were not easy to follow as cab-head matching. There were not much youtube tutorial as well. I found my new homework thanks to your help

Nice. I'd run out of ideas so it's good I don't need any more. Just one thing, prompted by the example thread types you mention.. There's one recent (and maybe some older) specifically discussing Class D. That one's very useful. It gets technical at times, but first and foremost, it helps break down the notion that class D means any specific box where Class D output is combined with some kind of preamp or emulator. This is one of those subjects where diving in is a good early start, best not left till later. (I used to love the tech articles in a magazine called Sound On Sound for similar reasons, it was a fast way to learn to make really good choices about stuff. If I hadn't migrated from synths to bass I'd still be reading it a lot). Interesting you say no YouTubez... that's a sure indication you've found a seam of gold in the mine here. Always worth getting in on those early.

 

[Topkat13]

Don’t worry about the plate bro…it’s what you put on. Reviews are just revues.

 

[mikewalker]

Hartke KB12 : seriously good amp for the $$ (if you can find one!)

I have a Hartke TX300 and it's an excellent little amp. I also use a TX600 and a bunch of Hartke cabinets. GOOD STUFF!
The Traynor SB-series get my recommendation too - not sure if you can get them in Europe though!
Tinyhead 'obvious choice' would be the new MESA Mesa/Boogie | Subway D-350 Ultra-Compact Bass Amp (Metal Head) but I also dunno if they are available in Europe...

* My other favorite amps are all out of production: Carvin, Mesa, HiWatt...

 

[J Wilson]

I'd advise buying something to get you by where you are, sell it when you leave, and buy something more substantial when you get home. I'm all for eliminating as many chances as possible of Fed Ex, DHS, et al, or the airlines losing or destroying my gear.

And let me guarantee you that all of us with lots of experience have changed our idea of a 'dream' bass or amp many times, and so will you. Guaranteed.

I've been at this since the late 70's, and most online reviews are laughable. I only take suggestions or trust reviews from experienced players, not some guy who can't cut a gig but has LOTS of 'followers'.

 

[JimChjones]

Yes. This is not a marriage. You don't need to be faithful to the same amp for the rest of your life. When in doubt get something secondhand, adequate for now, and of a common make easy to sell. Then when it's time to leave sell it. Many people will suggest Fender Rumble hits that spot, but locally there may be other good alternatives.

 

[coy garcia]

The problem with new gear is I still sound like me as you will you....I'd advise a small combo until you know for sure what you really want. It took me decades to know what I really want to play with. None of the amps you mentioned would fit me and I've tried them all... your taste will change over time.

 

[red_rhino]

I'd advise buying something to get you by where you are, sell it when you leave, and buy something more substantial when you get home.

Absolutely agree. Don’t buy anything you’re not willing to sell (most likely at a big discount) when it’s time to come home. Don’t overbuy. Find something serviceable, preferably used, locally. Save your money for a nicer rig later.

 

[Wfrance3]

Rumble amps have so many options. You get vintage, bright and one other filter, i forget what…
4 band eq. Overdrive section that you can leave off if you want. The come in a variety of sizes, super lightweight. Good value for the price. Really no downside especially for your first amp.

 

[Wasnex]

If you don't need an amp for gigging, consider buying something that is cheap and will allow you to practice with headphones. Save the rest of the money till you get back home and can buy your dream rig.

Example would be a Vox AP2BS:

This is a little headphone amp with a rhythm machine and an aux input so you can plug in a media player to play along with recordings.

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$39USD 40.11EEUR at the current exchange.

Vox is not the only company the sells these. Do some research and maybe you will find one that you like better.