"P" bass verses Jazz... comment from practice last night

[tothemax]

About a year or so ago I scored a 2004 MIA Jazz and started using it with the band I play in... Prior to that my regular player was a 2015 P, one of the Z Zounds special edition 50's reissues (MIM). After I got the J, I played around a bit with the P swapping out the MIM PU's with a Lindy Fralin set, and went to flats (the wiring and pots had already been upgraded). I was pleased with the upgrade, but the J was a little lighter and the contour was a little more comfortable to play so I kept using it with the band. Last week we added Pretzel Logic to the set and when I working on it, I decided to grab the P... With a few quick EQ adjustments on the amp I was pretty pleased with the tone, and I had forgotten how quiet it was playing with flats.
Fast forward to last night at practice... afterwards while chatting with one of the guitar players he mentioned that I wasn't playing the Jazz and... it was cool cause the P really cut through the mix and he could hear me much better than with the J. I use an Ampeg BA115v2 combo at practice, and I made a few EQ adjustments, maybe tweaked the volume up a hair. I have to admit it was nice going to the single volume control, but it always seems to me that I basically sound the same. Is there that much difference between the two bass type tones?

 

[pbass2]

About a year or so ago I scored a 2004 MIA Jazz and started using it with the band I play in... Prior to that my regular player was a 2015 P, one of the Z Zounds special edition 50's reissues (MIM). After I got the J, I played around a bit with the P swapping out the MIM PU's with a Lindy Fralin set, and went to flats (the wiring and pots had already been upgraded). I was pleased with the upgrade, but the J was a little lighter and the contour was a little more comfortable to play so I kept using it with the band. Last week we added Pretzel Logic to the set and when I working on it, I decided to grab the P... With a few quick EQ adjustments on the amp I was pretty pleased with the tone, and I had forgotten how quiet it was playing with flats.
Fast forward to last night at practice... afterwards while chatting with one of the guitar players he mentioned that I wasn't playing the Jazz and... it was cool cause the P really cut through the mix and he could hear me much better than with the J. I use an Ampeg BA115v2 combo at practice, and I made a few EQ adjustments, maybe tweaked the volume up a hair. I have to admit it was nice going to the single volume control, but it always seems to me that I basically sound the same. Is there that much difference between the two bass type tones?

There can be, the core sound of them is a bit different for sure, but they can also be totally indiscernible from one another in a mix. Many factors. As you mention you also made some EQ tweaks, they have different strings....lotsa variables to consider, not the least of which is how you balance the pickups on your Jazz. I use both and if I play well with good note definition and dovetail properly into my place in the mix neither one gets "lost" even the J with everything dimed. They're just a slightly different flavor.
EDIT: now if you're fighting against a lousy mix with overly loud guitars, other instruments eating up low end where they shouldn't be, etc....then the somewhat more pronounced mids of the P can work in your favor. But you can get a Jazz to work in that situation too, just takes different EQ settings. It's usually a mix problem when a bass is getting lost more than a bass problem.

 

[Paul New]

Where I hear the differences the most is on the E string, E - A. The Jazz growl and P warmth are very discernible there, if the Jazz is played with everything open.

How they mix is harder to describe. The P occupies less space but seems fuller, and I doubt that anyone else hears it like that.

For sure they can both work great in any situation, unless you need that bridge pickup sound.

 

[Pet Sounds]

Yeah, I'd say in general a Precision Bass will make itself felt in a band mix better than a Jazz. Of course, Js also are incredible instruments, but I feel the low mids of a Precision just fill a void in the sonic spectrum of a band that gives the bass more "oomph," to use the technical term.

 

[GroovyBaby]

I prefer the p sound but like the feel of the jazz. I put split coils in it and they move it a touch closer to the p. I recently recorded my p and my j and with the J set right, they sounded indistinguishable in a mix to me. But I feel it more live and prefer the p in a mix live.

 

[JohnnyChatter]

You ever try a PJ? Some people hate them. I personally feel like they are best of both worlds. I have several of all of them and I usually go back to PJ. It’s really just preference in tone at the end of the day and how you E.Q. your amp. The bass is just the starting point. IMO jazz bass has more natural highs/growl/attack where p bass kinda fills the room and is felt more. You can make either do the other though with some knob turning. I suggest keep both and just swap them out when you want a change. Neither is better or worse than the other.

Strings make a big difference for sure.

 

[deepestend]

I totally get this kind of thing... funny how you can be so into one thing and then go back to the old one and it sounds awesome. I kind of chalk it up to the fact that everything sounds great at different times, even if you are playing the exact same music. I played my jazz last night after I had totally lost interest in it for a month. Felt great under my hands and sounded great in the mix.

 

[pbass2]

As a long-time P guy who in just recent years started digging Jazzes big time: I love how a P sits right there in the mix in that way it famously does. But also I love how a Jazz (even w everything dimed) does something different from that. The low end feels wider and bigger, more like it's hugging the whole mix. Man, when you hear a good player playing a Jazz with really great note definition, it can sound so deep and awesome, supportive and clear. I like how the mid scoop can let the attack of the kick drum speak out. It's all mix and genre-dependent of course.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

About a year or so ago I scored a 2004 MIA Jazz and started using it with the band I play in... Prior to that my regular player was a 2015 P, one of the Z Zounds special edition 50's reissues (MIM). After I got the J, I played around a bit with the P swapping out the MIM PU's with a Lindy Fralin set, and went to flats (the wiring and pots had already been upgraded). I was pleased with the upgrade, but the J was a little lighter and the contour was a little more comfortable to play so I kept using it with the band. Last week we added Pretzel Logic to the set and when I working on it, I decided to grab the P... With a few quick EQ adjustments on the amp I was pretty pleased with the tone, and I had forgotten how quiet it was playing with flats.
Fast forward to last night at practice... afterwards while chatting with one of the guitar players he mentioned that I wasn't playing the Jazz and... it was cool cause the P really cut through the mix and he could hear me much better than with the J. I use an Ampeg BA115v2 combo at practice, and I made a few EQ adjustments, maybe tweaked the volume up a hair. I have to admit it was nice going to the single volume control, but it always seems to me that I basically sound the same. Is there that much difference between the two bass type tones?

Ha, my band started doing Pretzel Logic just a few weeks ago. I play it on my PBass or Ibanez GSR 100 EX, (which ever I’m playing when it comes up) both of which wear Ernie Ball Cobalt flats.

I have a Jazz that I don’t play very often, but when I do play it & need a PBass tone, I flip a mini toggle switch I installed that puts the pickups in series, which makes it sound a lot more like a P than a Jazz. It’s the most useful mod that can be done to a Jazz in my opinion.

 

[brianrost]

I’ve owned three Js over the years, a Suhr Jazz Deluxe 5 which I didn’t bond with at all, an AVRI “Mary Kaye” J that I loved the feel of...until it’s neck warped...and currently an AmStd J5. Both the passive ones I eventually rewired in series because I felt that even with EQ, they lacked the meat of the P. In series, well, they sound a lot like a P and there was no more hum.

So I guess you could say that what I like most about four string Js is the narrower neck.

 

[Wasnex]

About a year or so ago I scored a 2004 MIA Jazz and started using it with the band I play in... Prior to that my regular player was a 2015 P, one of the Z Zounds special edition 50's reissues (MIM). After I got the J, I played around a bit with the P swapping out the MIM PU's with a Lindy Fralin set, and went to flats (the wiring and pots had already been upgraded). I was pleased with the upgrade, but the J was a little lighter and the contour was a little more comfortable to play so I kept using it with the band. Last week we added Pretzel Logic to the set and when I working on it, I decided to grab the P... With a few quick EQ adjustments on the amp I was pretty pleased with the tone, and I had forgotten how quiet it was playing with flats.
Fast forward to last night at practice... afterwards while chatting with one of the guitar players he mentioned that I wasn't playing the Jazz and... it was cool cause the P really cut through the mix and he could hear me much better than with the J. I use an Ampeg BA115v2 combo at practice, and I made a few EQ adjustments, maybe tweaked the volume up a hair. I have to admit it was nice going to the single volume control, but it always seems to me that I basically sound the same. Is there that much difference between the two bass type tones?

IMHO here is what you need to know.
1. Ask two people which is better and you just might get two different answers.
2. Play in a different location and ask the same two people, and they both may pick the P.
3. Play in yet a different location and ask the same two people again, and they may pick the J.

My point is you shouldn't draw a generalized conclusion from one person's opinion in one practice location.

If you're getting paid big bucks to play one or the other, that's entirely fine IMHO. However, under most circumstances, you should choose whichever you prefer playing, for whatever reason you have.

Is there a difference between P bass tone and J bass tone? Absolutely and if you can't hear it, you might have a problem.

 

[Col Mustard]

+1 on the idea that its more of a mix problem than it is a bass problem.
IMHO you ought to be able to play either one and depend on the one working the sound to
mix it right. --Easy for me to say, I know... And we don't always get good sound, do we...

I'm retired now but spent forty four years on the road, mostly playing my '66 Fender J-bass
that I bought used in 1972. Having played my J-bass through a series of amps, some decent
some not so good, I'll say that the amp you choose will have a HUGE effect on your tone
...both what you hear and what the audience hears, which are usually not the same.

The differences in the P bass and the J bass will make a subtle difference in your tone
by comparison. It's there, but play them both through the same amp and you can
likely hear the difference, and you can usually either emphasize the difference or minimize
it by using the controls on your instrument, and on your pedal board, and on your amp.
I like having a Bass EQ pedal on my board.

I found the best tone on my J Bass was with the neck p'up dimed and the bridge p'up at
about 3/4. Where I set my tone control was dependent on the venue and how it sounded
in there (or out there...)

When I finally rescued an abandoned Squier P bass, and replaced all the rusted and corroded
parts with good quality components, and set it up properly, I found that I loved playing it.
The neck felt different, but very comfortable. Played through MY amp, that '97 Squier had an
awesome tone. The simplicity of the controls was great, IMHO. I think the P bass was one of
the things Ol' Leo got right the first time. But I'm sure I made hundreds of dollars playing
my Jazz bass on large stages and small. Cain't to wrong with either one IMHO.

 

[Elmstreet]

About a year or so ago I scored a 2004 MIA Jazz and started using it with the band I play in... Prior to that my regular player was a 2015 P, one of the Z Zounds special edition 50's reissues (MIM). After I got the J, I played around a bit with the P swapping out the MIM PU's with a Lindy Fralin set, and went to flats (the wiring and pots had already been upgraded). I was pleased with the upgrade, but the J was a little lighter and the contour was a little more comfortable to play so I kept using it with the band. Last week we added Pretzel Logic to the set and when I working on it, I decided to grab the P... With a few quick EQ adjustments on the amp I was pretty pleased with the tone, and I had forgotten how quiet it was playing with flats.
Fast forward to last night at practice... afterwards while chatting with one of the guitar players he mentioned that I wasn't playing the Jazz and... it was cool cause the P really cut through the mix and he could hear me much better than with the J. I use an Ampeg BA115v2 combo at practice, and I made a few EQ adjustments, maybe tweaked the volume up a hair. I have to admit it was nice going to the single volume control, but it always seems to me that I basically sound the same. Is there that much difference between the two bass type tones?

When you play your J are you running both pick ups on full?

 

[MtManiac]

As a long-time P guy who in just recent years started digging Jazzes big time: I love how a P sits right there in the mix in that way it famously does. But also I love how a Jazz (even w everything dimed) does something different from that. The low end feels wider and bigger, more like it's hugging the whole mix. Man, when you hear a good player playing a Jazz with really great note definition, it can sound so deep and awesome, supportive and clear. I like how the mid scoop can let the attack of the kick drum speak out. It's all mix and genre-dependent of course.

This is me too. Long time P player, I’d owned Jazzes in the past and just couldn’t take to them, so sold them. This year I picked up two Jazzes that are a bit different from each other, and have been playing them at band practices and am gaining an appreciation of the different things they do versus a P. I find on the first 5 frets or so, they can give this tone when I dig in that is what I’d call very bubbly or burpy. It’s not just the addition of the bridge pickup, as I do not experience this on a PJ. It’s more of a Geddy Lee type of growl.

My guitar player doesn’t pay much attention to what type of bass I’m using, he moreso recognizes them by colour - out of all of them, he strongly refers “the blue one”, which is a stock American Pro II P bass.

 

[Ricoco]

My first proper bass was a jazz, the sound to me is both quintessential and nostalgic to my bass playing. There’s been times where I’ve not owned one and always find that due to this, I always want one in the stable - however, I can very much relate to this post, often when it gets brought out to a gig I’m tweaking eq or volume through the night to try and get that presence and cut I’m so used to hearing with my precisions.

 

[Ronnie Pudding]

Are there differences? Yes. But, to the paying patrons out in the audience listening, do they know the difference? No. To them, it just sounds like a bass.

 

[tothemax]

Great feedback... lots of good points.

On the J, I normally have the neck PU, just a hair under dimed with the bridge about 3/4 so that I have a little volume control from within reach. As mentioned the slimmer neck and contour body were what sold me on the Jazz, plus I needed a decent BU. The P has a baseball bat neck, but for some reason it has a great feel. I keep a soft foam damper at the bridge and I think that accentuates the punch. That may have been the difference that GP was hearing. The one thing I did notice going back to the P, is that it was easier to get a sound, where I have to play around with the J controls a bit before I find my sound, while the tone control is helpful it seems more sensitive (in a different way than the P).

At the end of the day, it's nice to have a couple decent players to choose from. It's all good.

 

[RattleSnack]

Since these kinds of threads pop up consistently, I will offer different perspective:
Years ago, I played in a successful band with great but dominating, too loud, and overplaying guitarist. He would switch guitars often to try different things out, and because of that I always had problem with my sound: sitting in mix in the right way but also being heard and being able to drive the music. I heard numerous recordings of that band, never once bass sounded as consistent as I would like.
Then later, I went on to play in a good covers band and at some point, also mixing the sound. From that moment I NEVER ONCE had problem with bass guitar sounding anything but great. Do not misunderstand this, it's not the thing of max-ing out bass and calling it a day, it's a thing of properly placing every instrument in its own place with healthy overlaps. I switched 6-7 bass guitars with the same band (I like to try out new stuff) and received only compliments from band members and audience for each one.
The best confirmation for my ear I ever got was taking a look at my channel setup after the same band was, for a special occasion, mixed by pro producer and sound guy (doing over continent tours with big names): it was almost completely the same as I do it.
The long story short: to you as a musician, instrument is a world in itself, but actually it only matters in context. There is no "P vs. J" debate, there is only good playing, good mix and band sound as a whole.

 

[Bassdirty]

Does one LOOK better/Worse/Cool/appropriate/Uncool than the other?

Serious question. A LOT of people hear with their EYES.

A bass that "sounds Better" may just be one that your mate prefers.

 

[FullumMusic]

IMHO here is what you need to know.
1. Ask two people which is better and you just might get two different answers.
2. Play in a different location and ask the same two people, and they both may pick the P.
3. Play in yet a different location and ask the same two people again, and they may pick the J.

My point is you shouldn't draw a generalized conclusion from one person's opinion in one practice location.

If you're getting paid big bucks to play one or the other, that's entirely fine IMHO. However, under most circumstances, you should choose whichever you prefer playing, for whatever reason you have.

Is there a difference between P bass tone and J bass tone? Absolutely and if you can't hear it, you might have a problem.

^^^ All this.

One of my first instincts was "don't trust the guitarist's opinion on where the bass should sit in the mix." And i say that as a bassist and a mix engineer.

All joking aside, there are way too many variables going on to make a universal assumption about one person's opinion about one song at one rehearsal using different basses. So don't take as gospel what this one guitarist thought worked better for the mix in the one situation in this one room with a lot of variable changes. It might be true this time but not next.

Is there that much difference between the two bass type tones?

Yes and no.
Do they sound different? Yeah. But also, a J bass sounds different from itself depending on if you use the neck pup, bridge pup, or some combination of the two. And also every bass sounds a little different. Every P bass sounds a little different from every other P bass, and they all sound like P Bass.

With a few quick EQ adjustments on the amp I was pretty pleased with the tone

I use an Ampeg BA115v2 combo at practice, and I made a few EQ adjustments, maybe tweaked the volume up a hair

it always seems to me that I basically sound the same.

These statements are a hint, perhaps?

It seems like you're making EQ adjustments with the bass in isolation for your own ear and not for each bass in the mix while everyone is playing. That plus the volume adjustment.
- Maybe the P bass fit better in the mix and was louder because its frequency response curve suits the sound and the guitarist's ears better.
- Maybe he could hear it better because it was just louder, because you turned up the volume.
- Maybe it was because your "arbitrary" EQ adjustments for the P worked better in the mix than your EQ adjustments for the J. (Arbitrary meaning "to suit your tastes" not "to suit the mix")
- Maybe it was just that combination of P plus Amp plus Room plus all the tones the other musicians in the band were using for that song.

All this was a long way of saying, don't sweat it too much. The two basses sound different, but not so different you couldn't make either work tonally for your band if you spent some time dialing both of them in, in the context of the mix. They're both great basses.