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P with flats your only bass?

I think a P with flats is fabulous in a recording environment, largely bc the mixing can make it poke out sufficiently, and the engineer can drop the levels of other instruments and eq everything to “play nice”. Think old Stax and most any 45 rpm record.

It is also great to play on stage, but I have much less success in a live environment being heard and EQing is less successful for me. Also, if you get in a volume war on stage playing a P with flats, I think you will very quickly get the stink eye from your bandmates, and the sound guy may just throw his hands up and take you completely out if the FOH mix. In a disciplined stage environment, you are more likely to be successful, but in my experience, volume-disciplined stage mates with awareness of and respect for other instruments’ frequency needs are like unicorns.

So, for me, I love love LOVE a P with flats...it is THE sound of bass for me...but at nearly every single gig, I am reminded why I have to bring a bass with rounds. It isn't that a P with flats can’t work in my band, it is the simple fact that there are just too many things that have to be done (some by me to be sure, but mostly by others) to make it work acceptably live.

Sean Hurley and others of his ilk have the power to command a professional level of discipline that will allow them to do their thing with P and flats, and it sounds gorgeous.

Steve Harris does ok with his Rotosound Flats and a P - Bass. Live , his cut with many guitars taking much sonic space his Tech 21 helps quite a bit I guess.
I like my GK rig but I use the RBI or RPM to help find my space live. Even with my other rig I can tweak that thunder live with the same pre-amps. In the studio so much can be done.
I love the P and J but I’m a roundwound stainless guy
 
I have never heard anyone say "all anyone needs is a P-bass with flats" (though I'm sure it's been said). That's just silly, for all the obvious reasons.

I often hear "every bassist should have a P-bass with flats". Yes, it's a wonderful, classic tone, but not everyone needs it, not everyone likes it.

FWIW: I'm a roundwound guy, but usually keep flats on one of my P-basses. I will gig that bass -- usually with my classic Motown/funk/rock band, but also at the local open mic mostly-blues jam, and the occasional country gig. Note: I don't like changing basses mid-set, so I will slap my P-with-flats on tunes like "Bustin Loose", "Brick House", and even "Uptown Funk". Sure, it sounds a bit odd, especially for Bustin and Uptown, but nobody cares, not even my bandmates. If there was ever a bassist in the audience who rolled his eyes and thought to himself that it was sacrilege... well, I don't care! Flats don't prevent me from performing the song, don't impair the groove, and the audience still dances.

Edit: and I'm a 5-string guy only, including my P-style basses. Doesn't matter to me what anyone else plays: 4-string P, 6-string whatever. 5 is just right for me, end of story.

I don't disagree with any of this. I tend to agree. I have been an active round 5 guy for a LONG time. I have recently been using a 4 string P with flats. I enjoy the variety that this bass gives me. I doubt I'd ever not have an active round 5 string, or a fretless. I do think I approach things differently on a 4 than a 5 - flat or round.

I have also thought about putting the nickel rounds back on for a while. I do like the flats for John Mayer type stuff. Or for jazz quartet/standards gigs. I think the P/flats sounds better than my fretless for those gigs. I have used it at church and I know my sound guy likes the solid fundamental you get with flats. Drummer as well.
 
First, there is no need to sound like the record, or sound like anybody else. That's already been done. Just play it the way you feel it. If you feel like playing the tune on a four, by all means let 'er rip! If you are feeling it on a five, do the five! I have a four and a five with tapewound flats because that's what I like to play. Sometimes I play what I hear on the record, sometimes I don't. I've found that it doesn't really matter to listeners and when you get to be over 60, you just don't care what others think - you just do what sounds and feels right. Within reason, of coarse....:thumbsup:
 
Quick note on the flats vs rounds thing, and forgive me for being a little Get Off My Lawn in my comments.

One of the attractions of rounds is the "zing" and "clang" of a brand new set. I think a lot of folks find that it sounds cool on the bass listening to it by itself (and it does kind of). Others are specifically after the Chris Squire-like grind, even on non-Rickenbacker basses.

But there are drawbacks to this, which are reasons to let the strings die completely and never change them, or go to flats for an even deader sound:

- note-to-note consistency, if that's what you want, is significantly more difficult to achieve. The fundamental and lower harmonics not only need to be generated the same, so does the zing and clang. But zing and clang on new strings is much harder to control, especially finger style on the fretted bass. The string has to smack the frets exactly the same way each time - generally this means hitting the thing so hard you start breaking your arm, going to a pick which alleviates it somewhat but then you got to learn how to play with a pick, or simply accepting inconsistencies in the zing and clang. This gives the clink, clack, thud, clank, thud, grind, grind, thud, clink back-and-forth thing on every successive note. I personally just absolutely climb the frickin walls when I hear (or have) that effect, tho others don't mind it or even like it, and it can be a liability depending on the tone you want to achieve.

- if you use compression, the zing and clang can activate compression more than the other components of the note, defeating the purpose of the compression on the fundamental/low harmonics in the first place. This depends on your compressor, but this can drive you crazy in some cases. The really zingy/clangy notes will lack fundamental/lower harmonics and the less zingy/clangy ones will bloom like crazy. You can control this somewhat with the attack/release settings, but it forces you to do so even if you don't want to.

- in a live situation (IIRC from years ago gigging zing/clang on my Rickenbacker), most if not all of the zing/clang is attenuated somewhat in the FOH once mixed with the rest of the band. Some rooms have certain types of reflectivity that completely mute the treble coming out of your amp period once you step off the stage and get onto the floor. Folks right up at the stage can sort of hear it if they listen specifically to your amp, but generally it's much less audible out there. And once the guy playing guitar runs his finger along the underneath of his knobs on his amp, dooming the rest of the gig as one long guitar solo, it can disappear completely leaving only your fundamental and midbass at the audiences' ears. Usually you standing in front of your amp are the only one enjoying or hating the zing/clang. That doesn't hold if there's a PA and you're running a DI out to it, though, quite as much. But generally in a live situation, zing/clang doesn't actually buy you anything because it's hard to hear anyway.

So all these I have found to be good reasons to let my rounds die and never change them once they get that good thump going without the zing/clang. Or, if I need that effect quickly, put flats on the bass. The only drawback of flats is they have less sustain than rounds and are generally higher tension. So they tend to be less good at, say, the Jaco thing than a set of years-old dead rounds even though they may excel in the Motown thump thing over against dead rounds.

Anyway, that's just some notes I vaguely remember about rounds vs flats from The Good Old Days when I was gigging...

L


Wow.
 
I only play 4's and find Uptown Funk no challenge at all to pull off.

There is not a single tune done on a 5 that I can't cut on a 4. Note for note vs the record? No. Does the full dance floor care?

Not a one....

My '76 P with years old Chromes easily does the job.
Having said that, the joy of owning a variety of tools makes this just one of the available choices.
 
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In my opinion, it is possible to play any song on a standard-tuned 4-string bass. You won't sound like an exact carbon-copy of the record, and that's okay. Looking at YouTube I can see, there are indeed players who have the skill to play "Uptown Funk" on a 4-string.

(Disclaimer that I come from a jazz/improv background, where the ability to reinterpret a tune is highly regarded.)

All that said, SO GLAD that I have more than 1 bass. Only having one, would be torture for me. :)
When I first started playing almost all of the bass lines were played on flats and many of those sounds have held up quite well.

I was super impressed when I heard people like John Entwistle getting bell quality tones from his bass lines.

It wasn’t long till many bass players followed suit and started using rounds instead of flats.

I was later to the game of 5string vs. 4. I tried the Fender V back in 1970 and was not real impressed. I had been playing 4’s for 20+ years and didn’t feel like I needed one until 1990.

This year I got my 1st 6 string.

When I listen to the wide variety of sounds that have come over the ages - I am impressed with the flat sound and also with the rounds. Most of the music was successful because of the choices those players made.

At the end of the day we have to choose pick or fingers, flats or rounds, thump, snap, fretted or Fretless.

I don’t want to limit my choices even if some of the best music has a guy on a P bass with flats. There is a lot of great artists showing us that there are more options.
 
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I don't know. Different types of construction and electronics make a bass sound and play differently. I have one of each kind of bass. I have a set neck, bolt-on, neck through, fretless, acoustic, 34" scale, 35" scale, multi-scale, and headless. All of those basses inhabit a different sonic place, feel differently, and inspire me to play differently.

Do you NEED more than one bass? No.

Does having more basses make it easier to be more versatile? Yes.
 
You need the right tool for the job.

Sometimes, that isn't a 4 string bass with flats.

I took many basses to a recording session once, “song #4” of the 11 on the album.
Really thought the flats were what were called for, for sure not bright SS rounds. Not my $ in this project so I pretty much did what was asked of me. The last time I had flats was early 70’s Ric and shop said... “ no Roto’s on Ric’s”.... blah, blah, one song later off they came.
I found older rounds worked best for me for that song.
Back to “now”.... I use new strings for every show. Now I don’t have one “show” bass so I rotate three or four and after the show it becomes a rehearsal bass until it comes around again. Never works like that tho..... whatever. I like new SS rounds and $20 comes off the show $$ for that. Only live once ! Look what we all are doing now, sitting at home typing this mess instead of playing shows !! I’d almost pay to play now. I’d love to have to put new strings on ! Pray it’s soon. Peace.
 
Just curious. I sometimes think I'd like to do that, but then the band plays a tune like "Uptown Funk" and I need a 5 string with rounds?

Everyone says all you need is a P (with flats?) but sometimes that just doesn't work, right? I watch Sean Hurley talk about dumping his 5 string Lakland for a 4 string P. That's all he plays now.

Thoughts?

I have had people on TB tell me I need a fretted P in addition to my fretless, but nobody in a band or in the audience has ever told me I needed a fretted bass; I've had bandmates who never noticed my bass was fretless. BTW, all of my basses are strung with TI Jazz Flats. ;)
 
Music and emotional expression really should not be stuck to only one sound. The history of a given genre, culture, and community all play into self-expression within a given song. Gospel players tend to have a modern MTD sound and are not tied to earlier recordings, metal players tend to have an overdriven sound. Modern jazz players tend to lean towards more articulate sounds. I don't think many people would think Victor Wooten, Matt Garrison, or Janek G. would sound best on a P with flats given their style. More and more in popular music bass is being replaced by synth/keys/moog which is going for a sound that electric bass can not perfectly produce regardless of the instrument (despite Ian Allison's best efforts). What does that tell us about all you need is a p bass?

Sean Hurley, is a specific player, in a specific professional space, not writing and creating his own original music for the most part. That is very different then some other musicians. I do think it is good to study and understand why so many studio players and working bassist play a p bass, but don't forget about your own emotional expression and goals for music.
 
More and more in popular music bass is being replaced by synth/keys/moog which is going for a sound that electric bass can not perfectly produce regardless of the instrument (despite Ian Allison's best efforts). What does that tell us about all you need is a p bass?
I do think Ian has great synth sounds. But yeah, I play a synth (borrowing one until I can decide what I may want to buy) in the cover band on a number of songs. Could/should on a few more probably. Even at church there is room for synth bass, especially on those songs with lots of long, sustained tones.
 
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All kinds of basses - all kinds of strings - all kinds of styles! :cool: :bassist: :hyper:

04 mm sterling - rounds
93 jackson concert V professional - rounds
80 rickenbacker 4001 - very dead rounds
77 gibson ripper fretless - half rounds
75 fender p bass modded w/ Duncan J-P-J pups - flats
93 jerry jones 6 - flats
 
My 1st bass was a P and it had flats when I got it. My 1st string replacement was with rounds and I never went back. I thought about switching back but every time I asked about flats in a store, the guy behind the counter would question why so I bought rounds out of p
I just ordered some LaBella flats for my longhorn and look forward to testing it.