P with flats your only bass?

[ladybug]

Four string P with GHS pressure wound is what I use the most. (In between round and flat) And what I’d choose for only.

this thread should be good for hundreds of replies... I might as well get in early!

Total clickbate!! I HAVE TO read on! I can see both sides of the coin. I have a '69 P-Bass with Thomastik flats on it. For a long time that was my only bass...for everything (rock,jazz,top40,blues,funk,country). In the past few years i have been playing other instruments moollon j5 , stingray, wood & tronics. I use these for recording projects i do that need a certain sound. For live gigs, p w/ flats worked for all my needs. Recording is different for me. Hope everyone is staying safe

 

[bassliner50]

No.

 

[Luckydog]

Quick note on the flats vs rounds thing, and forgive me for being a little Get Off My Lawn in my comments.

One of the attractions of rounds is the "zing" and "clang" of a brand new set. I think a lot of folks find that it sounds cool on the bass listening to it by itself (and it does kind of). Others are specifically after the Chris Squire-like grind, even on non-Rickenbacker basses.

But there are drawbacks to this, which are reasons to let the strings die completely and never change them, or go to flats for an even deader sound:

- note-to-note consistency, if that's what you want, is significantly more difficult to achieve. The fundamental and lower harmonics not only need to be generated the same, so does the zing and clang. But zing and clang on new strings is much harder to control, especially finger style on the fretted bass. The string has to smack the frets exactly the same way each time - generally this means hitting the thing so hard you start breaking your arm, going to a pick which alleviates it somewhat but then you got to learn how to play with a pick, or simply accepting inconsistencies in the zing and clang. This gives the clink, clack, thud, clank, thud, grind, grind, thud, clink back-and-forth thing on every successive note. I personally just absolutely climb the frickin walls when I hear (or have) that effect, tho others don't mind it or even like it, and it can be a liability depending on the tone you want to achieve.

- if you use compression, the zing and clang can activate compression more than the other components of the note, defeating the purpose of the compression on the fundamental/low harmonics in the first place. This depends on your compressor, but this can drive you crazy in some cases. The really zingy/clangy notes will lack fundamental/lower harmonics and the less zingy/clangy ones will bloom like crazy. You can control this somewhat with the attack/release settings, but it forces you to do so even if you don't want to.

- in a live situation (IIRC from years ago gigging zing/clang on my Rickenbacker), most if not all of the zing/clang is attenuated somewhat in the FOH once mixed with the rest of the band. Some rooms have certain types of reflectivity that completely mute the treble coming out of your amp period once you step off the stage and get onto the floor. Folks right up at the stage can sort of hear it if they listen specifically to your amp, but generally it's much less audible out there. And once the guy playing guitar runs his finger along the underneath of his knobs on his amp, dooming the rest of the gig as one long guitar solo, it can disappear completely leaving only your fundamental and midbass at the audiences' ears. Usually you standing in front of your amp are the only one enjoying or hating the zing/clang. That doesn't hold if there's a PA and you're running a DI out to it, though, quite as much. But generally in a live situation, zing/clang doesn't actually buy you anything because it's hard to hear anyway.

So all these I have found to be good reasons to let my rounds die and never change them once they get that good thump going without the zing/clang. Or, if I need that effect quickly, put flats on the bass. The only drawback of flats is they have less sustain than rounds and are generally higher tension. So they tend to be less good at, say, the Jaco thing than a set of years-old dead rounds even though they may excel in the Motown thump thing over against dead rounds.

Anyway, that's just some notes I vaguely remember about rounds vs flats from The Good Old Days when I was gigging...

L

not at all, in my case. Flats have multiple drawbacks, and rounds also have multiple drawbacks. For my purposes, the primary drawback of flats (any flats), is that the initial attack is a bloom. The bloom is beautiful...its what I love about flats. But it sometimes just does not work well. The attack of rounds is totally different. Roundwound attack is quicker, which, if drawn on a chart, can be represented as a sharp spike. The initial attack of flats is more of a gradual curve. Some flats produce a sharper curve than others, but that attack is still a gradual curve (bloom), rather than a sharp spike. For me, that translates into a requirement that flats need extremely careful slotting in a live or recorded mix in order to provide a high degree of articulation, particularly if other instruments are very loud, or if they inhabit a large percentage of the available frequencies. In a Stax, Fame, Muscle Shoals, Motown or similar type of mix, the bloom works very well and is articulate and audible without being obnoxiously loud. But the mixes apparent in most music today are so far from those earlier types of mixes, that I find it much easier to “hear the note” with rounds than flats. Unless you have that rare unicorn combination of respectful musicians in your band and a magical sound engineer.

 

[mexicanyella]

not at all, in my case. Flats have multiple drawbacks, and rounds also have multiple drawbacks. For my purposes, the primary drawback of flats (any flats), is that the initial attack is a bloom. The bloom is beautiful...its what I love about flats. But it sometimes just does not work well. The attack of rounds is totally different. Roundwound attack is quicker, which, if drawn on a chart, can be represented as a sharp spike. The initial attack of flats is more of a gradual curve. Some flats produce a sharper curve than others, but that attack is still a gradual curve (bloom), rather than a sharp spike. For me, that translates into a requirement that flats need extremely careful slotting in a live or recorded mix in order to provide a high degree of articulation, particularly if other instruments are very loud, or if they inhabit a large percentage of the available frequencies. In a Stax, Fame, Muscle Shoals, Motown or similar type of mix, the bloom works very well and is articulate and audible without being obnoxiously loud. But the mixes apparent in most music today are so far from those earlier types of mixes, that I find it much easier to “hear the note” with rounds than flats. Unless you have that rare unicorn combination of respectful musicians in your band and a magical sound engineer.

This is a good point. I think the reason I have had the good results from flats in my guitar/bass/drums trio is that both the guitarist and drummer kind of “underplay.” There’s not a lot of syncopation you lock in with. There’s a lot of crunchy guitar, but it’s of the sustainy power chord variety, and the drummer’s pretty much a straight-ahead 4/4 basher. So, for better or for worse, syncopation (and sometimes major/minor) information comes from what I end up doing on my bass. And I have a lot of room for the flats’ blunt, blooming soft attack to do its thing.

On the pro side, I’ve had a lot of room to try stuff as I’ve transitioned from my guitar past to my bass-playing present day...flatwound strings included. Having to play in time while filling space has pushed me.

On the con side, we kind of suck.

 

[Altitude]

I kind of think a P with flats and a 5-string J with rounds is just about the right combination.

Unless you're John Patitucci, I just can't see how you'd find an electric bass gig you couldn't do with one or the other of these two basses. The P has Chromes, the J has Pressurewounds.

(I do have a very nice Skjold 6 string if you are John Patitucci)

 

[Mad Cow]

I’ve done a significant amount of recording of the mixes and, as a result, I can now almost always tell if flats will work for me in a particular circumstance.

Could you please describe an example of a circumstance which would work for flats, and one which wouldn't, in your experience? I find this interesting. Thank you.

 

[mouthmw]

Just curious. I sometimes think I'd like to do that, but then the band plays a tune like "Uptown Funk" and I need a 5 string with rounds?

Lol, that's a very unusual song to pick as something you'd need a 5 stringer with rounds on, because it can be done easily with a P with flats. It's perfect for that old school funk. I mean if you said something like modern downtuned metal, sure, but Uptown Funk? Really? Nah dude, definitely perfectly doable.

 

[MobileHolmes]

Depends on the sound that you are after. It's great for fingerstyle classic rock, R&B, jazz, country, etc. I personally don't like the slap tone, and for some things I just like a little more top end spunk. You could probably make it work for everything, but it isn't the best sound for SOME applications

 

[Hypercaffium]

For me a P could be enough, but definitely NOT with flats. I absolutely love the sound of flats but in this specific scenario I'd choose rounds all day every day.

 

[thmsjordan]

A P with flats is a one trick pony IMHO.
I gig a lot of different music and it would only
work in Blues Rock. Other than that my 5 string
active basses with rounds do 90% of the gigs.

I play different styles as well being a freelancer. Vivaldi to Bruno Mars, to Oliver Nelson with an occasional bluegrass gig thrown in for good measure. Love it all.

Interesting how different some of these responses are. True it doesn't cover everything. It may be a one trick pony (more on that in a sec) but to many of us it is a really, really GOOD trick.

I hear drastically different sounds from p basses from Steve Harris vs. Tony Franklin, vs. James Jameson vs. Max Bennett, etc etc.. So imho it is more than one trick but to each his/her own. It is one trick to you and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I play 2 P basses with TI flats. One is a Warmoth fretless with a Bartolini pickup and is is set up to sound like an upright (which I also play). The other is a stock 2004 Precision. My p bases sound totally different so I can't say I agree with the one trick pony idea. I respectfully disagree with that assessment. It isn't my experience at any rate.

Just for the record I need a 5 string too as stated in my other post in this thread. That one is a 2013 am deluxe Jazz strung with Rounds for slappity whappity stuff and parts that call for that contra C. So your point that P basses don't cover.everything is one I am in total agreement with.

So, I suppose some people don't like P basses or at least prefer not to play them. God bless, and play what YOU love!

 

[David Jayne]

Just curious. I sometimes think I'd like to do that, but then the band plays a tune like "Uptown Funk" and I need a 5 string with rounds?

Everyone says all you need is a P (with flats?) but sometimes that just doesn't work, right? I watch Sean Hurley talk about dumping his 5 string Lakland for a 4 string P. That's all he plays now.

Thoughts?

I've done Uptown Funk plenty of times with a 4 string P with flats. Detune E to D and funk out. Works fine. I've yet to be scolded for not using a 5 with rounds. So long as it feels good, it is good. The sound is secondary.

 

[thmsjordan]

View attachment 4022761

Unless you're John Patitucci, I just can't see how you'd find an electric bass gig you couldn't do with one or the other of these two basses. The P has Chromes, the J has Pressurewounds.

SMOKIN Valenti !!!!!!?

(I do have a very nice Skjold 6 string if you are John Patitucci)

 

[Altitude]

SMOKIN Valenti !!!!!!?

Thanks. He does very good work. I've had that one 13 years!

 

[Rock Salad]

I can always hear a precision when I'm playing. That's the cinch for me. It's not my only instrument, but most of the time it may as well be. With Chrome flats just like a number of others above. I even can do a reasonable zingy sound with it.
Precision bases just don't need anywhere near as much power from an amp to be present. That's a good thing in the tiny bars I play at.

 

[Jason Hollar]

I normally use a 5 string Lakland Jazz (w/ flats) to cover the cover thing. Now thanks to this thread - instead of shedding bebop heads and such - I’m going through the 500+ list of agency tunes, trying to match up a cool octave/filter/phaser synth bass type sound to see how many tunes I can absolutely do with the Fender P 4 & flats aside from the J 5.

This topic interested me because even though I’m perfectly comfortable on a 5, the 4 is just a little easier, lighter, and a bit more carefree to play.

 

[SteveC]

I normally use a 5 string Lakland Jazz (w/ flats) to cover the cover thing. Now thanks to this thread - instead of shedding bebop heads and such - I’m going through the 500+ list of agency tunes, trying to match up a cool octave/filter/phaser synth bass type sound to see how many tunes I can absolutely do with the Fender P 4 & flats aside from the J 5.

This topic interested me because even though I’m perfectly comfortable on a 5, the 4 is just a little easier, lighter, and a bit more carefree to play.

I don't know that I'd ever give up my 5 string or fretless 5, but the 4 is different, lightest, and there are D-tuners and octave pedals and things you can do to get more from it I suppose. There have been some good points both way so far. A good thread and staying on topic mostly. Thanks everyone.

 

[_Obra_]

I have a few basses and play the one I need depending on the band and music genre.
For my personal enjoyment, I play P with Flats 95% of time.

If I had to keep only one bass, it would certainly be a P on which I would change strings as needed from Flats to Rounds.

Sometimes Flats just don’t contribute to the original sound in a cover band, no matter how much I love them.

I simply can’t find any reason for 5 even though I’ve played a lot of them in the past.

 

[bigtone23]

Nope, this the 21st century and I don't just play mid 20th century classic or throwback tunes.
I do have a designated P with flats, as every working bassist should have. It's a very distinctive tone.
I view the P with flats like a 3/16" flat head screwdriver and a J with rounds like a #2 Phiilips.

 

[Treebeard]

I played Uptown Funk on a P with flats on a regular gig for over a year. Just turned the treble knob up and slapped away.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Just curious. I sometimes think I'd like to do that, but then the band plays a tune like "Uptown Funk" and I need a 5 string with rounds?

Everyone says all you need is a P (with flats?) but sometimes that just doesn't work, right? I watch Sean Hurley talk about dumping his 5 string Lakland for a 4 string P. That's all he plays now.

Thoughts?

I'm sure it's been said, but I'll chime in anyway.

I have never heard anyone say "all anyone needs is a P-bass with flats" (though I'm sure it's been said). That's just silly, for all the obvious reasons.

I often hear "every bassist should have a P-bass with flats". Yes, it's a wonderful, classic tone, but not everyone needs it, not everyone likes it.



FWIW: I'm a roundwound guy, but usually keep flats on one of my P-basses. I will gig that bass -- usually with my classic Motown/funk/rock band, but also at the local open mic mostly-blues jam, and the occasional country gig. Note: I don't like changing basses mid-set, so I will slap my P-with-flats on tunes like "Bustin Loose", "Brick House", and even "Uptown Funk". Sure, it sounds a bit odd, especially for Bustin and Uptown, but nobody cares, not even my bandmates. If there was ever a bassist in the audience who rolled his eyes and thought to himself that it was sacrilege... well, I don't care! Flats don't prevent me from performing the song, don't impair the groove, and the audience still dances.


Edit: and I'm a 5-string guy only, including my P-style basses. Doesn't matter to me what anyone else plays: 4-string P, 6-string whatever. 5 is just right for me, end of story.