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PA Help Please (V-Drums, Keys\Synth, and Vocals)

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by rootshock, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. Jun 23, 2008 #1
    rootshock

    rootshock

    Feb 17, 2008
    Chicagoland
    Hey

    Our drummer just got an electronic V-drum kit. It's is really cool. He is going to make a hybrid kit with some of his regular drums. We tried running the electronic kit through a guitar amp, but there really is no bottom end, as it is voiced for a guitar.

    We also have a keyboard/synth player, who is running through a different guitar amp. The guitar amp is working better in that application.

    I am thinking that potentially we should purchase a PA system, and run both drums and keys through that. The drummer is also going to need his own monitor for the digital side.

    The PA would primarily be for rehearsals, as most of the gigs in the area will provide a PA system.


    Am I making the proper suggestion? Is there a specific digital drum kit amplification system I should be aware of? Would a simple PA or keyboard type amp be the direction to go? Also, will we need to have at least a 12" speaker to get the punch from the digi bass drum? Also both the keys and the guitarist will be doing some vocals. So I'm thinking at least 4 channels.

    Power output suggestions, speaker size suggestions, and budget conscious (used) suggestions are especially appreciated.



    -Thx
     
  2. Jun 23, 2008 #2
    Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    What's your budget?
    Check craigslist in your area.
    There's a bunch of pa stuff for sale.

    A couple of 1x15 plus horn cabs, 500w mixer/amp should do it.
    How are you going to mix in the non-electric drums?
     
  3. Jun 23, 2008 #3
    Barisaxman

    Barisaxman Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 17, 2005
    Omaha, NE
    +1 on looking for used stuff. You can get some good quality used gear for the same money as bottom of the barrel new stuff from Guitar Center, Musicians Friend, etc. If you want the best sound from e-drums...at the very least you'll want 15's in your tops...or perhaps 12's with a sub. You'll be most happy with at least one sub for both keyboards and drums, though.
     
  4. Jun 24, 2008 #4
    derrico1

    derrico1 Supporting Member

    Apr 12, 2005
    Charlottesville, VA
    If keys and vocal monitoring are working as-is for you and you don't want to rehearse with in-ears or headphones, then a decent three-way PA cab and power amp should do the V-drums justice, and you're done.

    If you want to improve your rehearsal monitoring, think stage monitoring rather than FOH PA, as you'll get feedback and mud in a small rehearsal room before you begin to open up a big subs+bins+horns system.

    At minimum, you'll probably want at least three different monitor mixes (one mix each tailored for vocalists, keys, and drummer). Pretty much any decent mixing board will handle that, so you'll just need a power amp or headphone amp channel for each monitor mix and enough wedges, cabs, headphones, or in-ears to make everybody happy.
     
  5. Jun 24, 2008 #5
    rootshock

    rootshock

    Feb 17, 2008
    Chicagoland
    We've got a mixer already, so I'm looking for the amplifier and speaker combination most suited for electronic drum amplification.

    The other consideration is the drummer is still adapting to fact that the sound from the electronic kit will (obviously) be coming out of a speaker, and doesn't have the same natural air moving punch and feedback as you get with a "usual" drum kit.

    Perhaps an in ear monitor for him to hear the electronic side would be the way to go over a dedicated monitor next to him.

    I'm personally not crazy about rehearsing with only ear monitors and no live amps.

    The most important part right now is getting a system that will amplify the drums in such a way that they are musically functional. Currently as I mentioned, the bass drum has no punch or oomph, and the mids are also lacking. He got it the night before last practice, so we just ran it through a spare guitar amp to see if we could play around with it, and it just wasn't happening. After a bit we went back to the regular drums, and abandoned the electronic kit.

    Tonight he is going to make his hybrid kit, where he will replace his toms with the electronic toms, and bring in the electronic cymbals to compliment the regulars. He is also going to break down the double bass pedal, and instead have one for the regular kick and also have the digital kick trigger in place of the other double bass pedal.

    Granted this probably could've been done more efficiently with a sampling pad, but if we can get a proper amplification system for the electronic kit, he'll probably move only to playing the electronic and abandon the hybrid style. We're basically just trying to get something usable for jammin' and rehearsing.


    Is there a consensus on how much wattage we should be looking at just to amplify the drum kit. It seems we should work out the keys and vocals later. Currently the keys setup is functional for practice and there are only limited vocals in the music.




    -Thx!
     
  6. Jun 24, 2008 #6
    Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    PA amps can be cheap used. I picked up a Peavey 250 rms/channel, 400rms bridged for $150. That would by fine.

    Since it's a hybrid system, if you place the speakers in back of the drums, it'll be easier to balance the sound between the analog/digital setup

    As far as speakers, I strongly recommend 15" in case you play out with the setup. For rehearsal, 1 speaker box with 1x15/horn will work.
     
  7. Jun 24, 2008 #7
    Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    This would be perfect for the drums:
    Note: there's a pic that didn't copy. It looks to be in xlnt condition.
    There's also a bunch of other equip. on CL available.
    chicago craigslist > city of chicago > musical instruments

    Peavey Bass/PA cabinet - $35 (near west loop)
    Reply to: [email protected]
    Date: 2008-06-23, 12:44PM CDT


    Peavey Cabinet with original speakers: 1x15", 1x8" and horn; crossover network, jacks for bi-amp, full range, XLR. meet/beat pawnshop offer today only. Had better offer but buyer flaked out on me! Must pickup today $35/best offer.

    312-231-0200


    PostingID: 729723638
     
  8. Jun 24, 2008 #8
    ric1312

    ric1312 Inactive

    Apr 16, 2006
    chicago, IL.
    I use a bose L1 system with 4 bass modules for our drummers e drums, my bass and my vocal. Sounds killer. The L1's work as both backline monitors and front of house for almost all our gigs. So, although if you consider them just an amp they are expensive, but if you use them to replace: amp, monitor, and front of house it can actually save you money. They have line outs on them for two of the channels, so you can run out to house sound if needed.
     
  9. Jun 24, 2008 #9
    rootshock

    rootshock

    Feb 17, 2008
    Chicagoland


    Thanks for the input! I saw that yesterday and forwarded it to the drummer.

    So I'm looking for a minimum of 250w per channel?


    The Bose system looks great, but at $2000 it isn't really in our budget
     
  10. Jun 24, 2008 #10
    Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    At least.

    Something like this might work, too.

    boston craigslist > boston/camb/brook > musical instruments

    PA - Soundcrafsmen amp - peavy speakers - $320 (MA)
    Reply to: [email protected]
    Date: 2008-06-23, 8:43PM EDT

    400 Watt Soundcraftsmen Mosfet Power Amplifier Model A2801. 2 Peavy Speaker Cabs with 15 Speakers and Horns. Speaker cable included.

    * Location: MA
    PostingID: 730268909

    edit: amp probably be okay for rehearsal/small gigs. speakers? depends on which model. Peavy SPII w/black widows will blast pretty good.
     
  11. Jul 9, 2008 #11
    musicman7722

    musicman7722

    Feb 12, 2007
    Hampton NH
    Mackie SR1521z Active PA Speaker - 15 Inch 400 Watts

    Our drummer uses one of these for stage and rehersal. He sets it up horizontal on an amp stand right behind him. Plenty of woomp for him and we all hear it quite well. In smal gigs we can use that alone for him. We put the keys through the monitor system and don't use a dedicated amp.

    It's heavy but easy to carry and doesn' need a mixer either.

    Hope this helps.

    The speaker is around $800.
     
  12. Jul 9, 2008 #12
    badstonebass

    badstonebass

    Jun 7, 2006
    ohio
    We just run evrything through the monitors and it works very well. In fact we go direct with Guitar, bass and drums. Friggin awesome. We can have CD quality sound at a live gig.
     
  13. Jul 9, 2008 #13
    fokof

    fokof One day ,I'll be in the future

    Mar 16, 2007
    Here
    If you already have your mixer and it's for rehersal only purposes , go with active monitor like Mackie SRM450 , JBL EON-G2 , RCF ART series etc....
    A lot less hassle than poweramp/speaker , soud is good , and you can find Mackies used these day for a joke because they got their V2 out......
     
  14. Jul 9, 2008 #14
    peter G

    peter G

    Sep 28, 2004
    ohio's northcoast
    Our drummer has a Roland kit and two of their combos, both sounded good but the smaller one (10”?) is a little weak. The bigger amp (12") has 2 channels and these little satellite speakers and sounds great. Now we run him through the PA with everyone else and use his 2 amps as monitors.