Pain in left hand

[bassdude51]

TalkBass person, dune .....has given some good advice and experience.

I am 73 and have a degree of carpal tunnel. Sometimes if I play bass more than 30 minutes, my left index finger starts to get a burning numbness. About 3 weeks ago, I was fooling around with my son's electric guitar, playing chords. Man! The finger tips on my left hand, index middle and ring fingers were slightly numb for about the next 6 days. I'm not going to be chording on the guitar anymore.

My advice to mmmelatonin ............go see a doctor and/or limit bass playing to 2 hrs or less a day. Try using a lighter press on the strings and fret notes with the flat part of your fingers. Avoid using finger tips or partial finger tips.

Hope you'll be OK!

 

[GringoSalsero]

All good info here. Something that was not mentioned yet. I had fretting hand index finger pain and had to play a gig. I decided to use my middle finger in place of the index finger as much as possible to lighten load on index. Realized that I was under utilizing my middle finger, which is longer and stronger. Still do this and feel that my playing has advanced because of it.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

my action is pretty low according to the guy at my local bass store. also idk the thicker strings feel more rough on the left hand to me but oh well.

You can go lighter gauge .
I use on a couple basses, as light as 98-30 (Rotosound)

 

[/\/\3phist0]

You don't need grip strength to play the bass. When you grip, your hand is tight, not relaxed. Try fretting a note without the thumb on the neck of the bass to prove to yourself that grip is not required to play a clean note.

You do not need a lot of pressure to fret a note. It can be done without even having your thumb on the back of the neck.

i guess we have different definitions of 'a decent amount of pressure'

i might just have weak hands lmao it takes a non-trivial amount of pressure for me.

 

[BassicJazzy]

You can go lighter gauge .
I use on a couple basses, as light as 98-30 (Rotosound)

The strange thing about lighter strings is that sometimes you use nearly as much pressure because the contact area on pad of fingers is smaller. Then there's the round core vs hex core variable too. Definitely some strings are easier to fret than others on same bass, I think you just need to find some that work well for your particular touch.

There have been lots of good points brought up here. You can really do damage if you ignore warning signs of pain and/or numbness. It's pretty much like the gym, listen to your body, don't push it, and rest long enough to recover. Also, some PT may help?

Anyone who has ever followed Scott on Scott's Bass Lessons on Youtube can see what happened to him from long playing. I think he calls it focal dysphonia? Fingers start moving on their own, uncontrollably? Wears gloves now when he plays, but can still play circles around most.

 

[JazznFunk]

I'd consider looking at your setup and technique as a whole package. Neck relief, string height, etc. Medium gauge strings shouldn't require a ton of force to press down. You should also consider mentally reframing where the force is coming from to fret with your left hand. If you're 'gripping' with the hand alone, it's putting too much stress on your hand and wrist. Coming from the upright side of things, the force to pull the hand and fingers back to the fretboard should primarily come from the whole arm and shoulder. I can fret notes comfortably without my thumb on the back of the neck at all in many cases, and someone could come up behind me and pull my thumb off the neck easily. This applies to upright AND electric.... fretless and fretless. Free up that hand and wrist.

 

[mambo4]

I guess we have different definitions of 'a decent amount of pressure'

As others have said: you Should not need to fret hard enough to cause any pain.
Most players start out fretting much too hard, falsely assuming strength is the issue.

Experiment and you will soon see just how little actual pressure is required.

Fret a note on the fingerboard. Pluck the string and vary the pressure from your fertting finger (which one doesn’t matter) and see how much pressure is needed to prevent fret buzz. Then train yourself to provide as little pressure as possible.

What these two are saying is demonstrated in the third video of the Holy Trinity of Beginner Bass Technique Videos

But: pins and needles in your index tip may NOT be caused by this.

 

[JazznFunk]

yeah i know that's true and i try to do that but my strings are kinda thick and i do have to use a decent amount of pressure to get a clean note. i might be subconsciously pressing harder while im playing when i don't realise though.

Sounds like your action may be too high, neck relief may be too extreme, and the gauge of strings might all be contributing factors to a sense of excess 'stiffness' that you're fighting through. Get the instrument tweaked. It should be easy to play. This is music, not combat, or a gym workout.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Anyone who has ever followed Scott on Scott's Bass Lessons on Youtube can see what happened to him from long playing. I think he calls it focal dysphonia? Fingers start moving on their own, uncontrollably? Wears gloves now when he plays, but can still play circles around most.

Scott’s condition has NOTHING to do with bass playing.

Tardive Dyskinesia

Learn about the medications that can cause this movement disorder.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[BassicJazzy]

I'd consider looking at your setup and technique as a whole package. Neck relief, string height, etc. Medium gauge strings shouldn't require a ton of force to press down. You should also consider mentally reframing where the force is coming from to fret with your left hand. If you're 'gripping' with the hand alone, it's putting too much stress on your hand and wrist. Coming from the upright side of things, the force to pull the hand and fingers back to the fretboard should primarily come from the whole arm and shoulder. I can fret notes comfortably without my thumb on the back of the neck at all in many cases, and someone could come up behind me and pull my thumb off the neck easily. Free up that hand and wrist.

No disrespect intended, I have utmost respect for upright players, wish I could play one, but that is a different instrument, and you are in a different position where your upper body and shoulder can and will do much of the work. Still, there is some truth in what you say. You do not need any real force from thumb to fret. Sometimes my thumb creeps up around the side of neck, where it is applying zero force but the fretting is fine, and I have to yell at it to get back down into more appropriate position.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Scott’s condition has NOTHING to do with bass playing.

Tardive Dyskinesia

Learn about the medications that can cause this movement disorder.

my.clevelandclinic.org

I stand corrected. When he talked about it on a video I got the impression it was due to his playing, Apparently not so. Well, I guess that's one less potential problem I won't have to worry about from playing too much, so thank you very much for the correction.

 

[elpancho]

Start using a Hand Grip or Finger stretchers to build muscle, I was getting needle like sensation feelings on my hands as well and the Hand Grip help me with gaining muscle.

 

[JazznFunk]

No disrespect intended, I have utmost respect for upright players, wish I could play one, but that is a different instrument, and you are in a different position where your upper body and shoulder can and will do much of the work. Still, there is some truth in what you say. You do not need any real force from thumb to fret. Sometimes my thumb creeps up around the side of neck, where it is applying zero force but the fretting is fine, and I have to yell at it to get back down into more appropriate position.

I've played both instruments for almost 30 years. So, no disrespect back to you either, but I know what I'm talking about, and have 30 years of very few hand/arm/wrist issues to show for it as well. While overall left and right hand techniques don't transfer much between upright and electric, the body ergonomics do on a pretty large scale. A lot of it does depend on where your strap position allows your arm and left hand to align and reduce excess bend in the wrist as well. If the bass is way too high (fusion geek position), it will introduce a more extreme default bend in your wrist. The same is true if you keep the bass slug way low. If the bass is at a reasonable, comfortable height where your arm is mostly perpendicular to the back of the neck, and you have little to no bend in your wrist, you can easily use the force/weight of the whole arm pulling back to do the bulk of the work on electric for you, and move up and down the neck without having to bend your wrist or crane your thumb around either. It's hard to illustrate with just words, but it's easily demonstrated in practice.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I stand corrected. When he talked about it on a video I got the impression it was due to his playing, Apparently not so. Well, I guess that's one less potential problem I won't have to worry about from playing too much, so thank you very much for the correction.

There is the syndrome he mentions that is likely more spot on for his condition:

What Is Focal Dystonia?

Focal dystonia is a neurological disorder that causes involuntary muscle spasms in one body part. It can affect movement, speech or vision. Learn about treatment options.

my.clevelandclinic.org

There are a few of these neurological conditions.

I played with a keyboardist who had Tardive:
Facial movement were off putting! But he also had the hand movement: that’s why I assumed Tardive.
I corrected myself!

 

[Isaac_James]

Scott’s condition has NOTHING to do with bass playing.

Tardive Dyskinesia

Learn about the medications that can cause this movement disorder.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Tardive dyskenesia is a different neurological disorder than what Scott has, which he's said is focal dystonia. TD is usually a result of long-term use of strong antipsychotic medications (usually older formulations like Haldol and Thorazine, newer drugs aren't as bad in this regard). FD is something that usually develops from stress to muscles and nerves from activities like sports or playing music - I don't know if that's the case for Scott but FD absolutely can come about from repetitive stress.

 

[Isaac_James]

I'm sixteen so it's not really a problem with inflammation i dont think. thanks though if it persists i might consider.

You are less prone to such things at 16, but it's not impossible - my wife had juvenile rheumatoid arthritis that affected her joints at around that age, and has come roaring back in the last few years.

You are also at an age where you can develop good technique habits, but you can also develop bad habits that will be a rotten pain in the ass to correct when you're older.

This isn't something that anyone here can diagnose for you. I think working on posture and technique are good ideas for anyone, especially if you're dealing with joint or nerve pain. But you really ought to see an occupational or physical therapist to figure out what's going on in your body specifically.

I just turned 41 and I'm dealing with issues in my hand that aren't just affecting my ability to play bass, but to do a lot of basic tasks, which has been made worse by me not addressing it when I should have. That probably seems a long way off for you now but believe me when I say that you don't want to find yourself in my position. Get it looked at now - problems like this won't just go away on their own, and taking random stabs at treatment based on advice from people who 1) probably aren't doctors and 2) haven't assessed you in person even if they are doctors is just as likely to cause more problems as it is to solve it.

Be smart. Don't be like me.

 

[BassicJazzy]

There is the syndrome he mentions that is likely more spot on for his condition:

What Is Focal Dystonia?

Focal dystonia is a neurological disorder that causes involuntary muscle spasms in one body part. It can affect movement, speech or vision. Learn about treatment options.

my.clevelandclinic.org

There are a few of these neurological conditions.

I played with a keyboardist who had Tardive:
Facial movement were off putting! But he also had the hand movement: that’s why I assumed Tardive.
I corrected myself!

Yes, that's what I wrote, if you look at my original post, but I mis-spelled it. Plus I suck as a proof-reader, and often miss mistakes caused by auto-correct, etc. I watched his YouTube video where he explained it and it was quite some time ago, but I thought he did say it was from his playing. Well, now I can worry about it again!!

Quite frankly, since I'm not a pro making my living from this I doubt I really have much to worry about. I rarely play more than 2 hours per day, and usually no more than 30 minutes at a time.

 

[BassicJazzy]

I've played both instruments for almost 30 years. So, no disrespect back to you either, but I know what I'm talking about, and have 30 years of very few hand/arm/wrist issues to show for it as well. While overall left and right hand techniques don't transfer much between upright and electric, the body ergonomics do on a pretty large scale. A lot of it does depend on where your strap position allows your arm and left hand to align and reduce excess bend in the wrist as well. If the bass is way too high (fusion geek position), it will introduce a more extreme default bend in your wrist. The same is true if you keep the bass slug way low. If the bass is at a reasonable, comfortable height where your arm is mostly perpendicular to the back of the neck, and you have little to no bend in your wrist, you can easily use the force/weight of the whole arm pulling back to do the bulk of the work on electric for you, and move up and down the neck without having to bend your wrist or crane your thumb around either. It's hard to illustrate with just words, but it's easily demonstrated in practice.

I don't totally agree with your previous post but I am 100% in agreement with what you are saying here. These are excellent points. I have relatively long arms, and have never been comfortable playing bass sitting down, it just isn't in the right position. I also find that a lot has to do with the relative position of the start of neck to your body. The P-bass really sits optimally for me, the J-bass not so much. I get tired much more quickly on the J because the neck is slightly out of position for what my body wants.

I'm not dumping on my J-bass, I love it for other reasons.

It's a little like the machines at the gym, the ones with fixed fulcrum points, that may not fit the way your body wants to move. You can only adjust them within their design parameters. Free weights, on the other hand, will automatically fit the way joints of your body want to move.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

Try this out. It's been helping me.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Yes, that's what I wrote, if you look at my original post, but I mis-spelled it. Plus I suck as a proof-reader, and often miss mistakes caused by auto-correct, etc. I watched his YouTube video where he explained it and it was quite some time ago, but I thought he did say it was from his playing. Well, now I can worry about it again!!

Quite frankly, since I'm not a pro making my living from this I doubt I really have much to worry about. I rarely play more than 2 hours per day, and usually no more than 30 minutes at a time.

Point is: it was not CAUSED by bass playing