Double Bass Palatino Megathread part II

[GKon]

The "headphone jack" is for the stock pickup. The piezo is connected into the original harness via the jack and this is re-used with the new pre. The piezo lead terminates with a male 1/8 plug and using the old jack keeps it clean. You will lose the actual headphone jack with the replacement pre, but a headphone amp is easy enough to plug into and pretty cheap to get separately.

The power is now activated by plugging into the 1/4 output jack, removing one point of potential failure in the switch on the stock setup.

I've got no complaints with the pre and it has been flawless through years of gigs. The cheap knobs I picked up have been fine too. One of these days when I am feeling ambitious I'll replace the jack plates so they match. I've been using it exactly is it is in the photos I posted when I installed it and the 3 ply volume plate doesn't bother me at all when playing as nobody can see it.

Aha! Thanks for clearing up my question about the headphone jack. That makes perfect sense.
Also, for verifying the 1/4 output jack is the on/off when you plug in.

It looks to be a very straightforward swap and installation. With your pics and explanations I'm confident I'll be able to modify mine in the same way. I'm looking forward to
trying this out.

Thank you, too, for the real world updates about still using this setup and that it's bee working flawlessly. That's a huge endorsement.

 

[carl h.]

It is pretty straight forward, just don't scrimp on the cheap masking tape. I taped the 2 knob hole and marked the perimeter of the plate to make opening of the cavity easier to monitor, but the tape let me down.

 

[GKon]

It is pretty straight forward, just don't scrimp on the cheap masking tape. I taped the 2 knob hole and marked the perimeter of the plate to make opening of the cavity easier to monitor, but the tape let me down.

.
Sorry to laugh. I feel your pain, and thanks for the tip. I'm laughing in solidarity because I find it
funny at that's still your biggest upset after all these years. I'll make sure to use some low tack blue tape.

 

[carl h.]

There's a green tape that really releases nicely. Do some research before buying what the local wally world calls low tack.

 

[GKon]

There's a green tape that really releases nicely. Do some research before buying what the local wally world calls low tack.

I have seen green, too. A trick I learned over the years, take the tape and stick it to your jeans, or cotton t-shirt or sweatshirt then peel it off. Do that a couple of times and it makes the tape less tacky.

I just ordered the preamp. $63 with tax. Not bad at all. I'll let you know when I get it and install it.

 

[GKon]

WeedWacker SlapHappy hybrid steel core E and A strings installed. The black are the hybrids, red are standard Kevlar core. HUGE difference! Excellent tension on The E and A now! Should have done this a long time ago.

May be installing the new preamp later today.

 

[GKon]

I installed the new pre-amp yesterday. @carl h. thank you for not only the recommendation, but also for the pictures and directions on how to install it.

It was a pretty straightforward installation. One thing I noticed was the the ground wire attached to the bod was held on only with a piece of tape to the backside of the body rest mounting plate. I ended up soldering it to the back of the plate for better connection. It was a bit tricky to heat the plate up enough to get the solder to stick to the plate, but I think I got it done well. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it detaches.

My first impressions are good! The new pre-amp cuts down the noisiness of the stock pickup a lot, but not totally. What I mean is, if I tap on the body, or on one of the new stacked knobs, or even if I set the treble a bit high when I touch the strings, you do hear tapping and finger noise noise transferring through the pickup. Is this normal? I assume so.
It's definitely MUCH better than it was before and, if I dial down the treble, it mostly eliminates it.

I'm considering removing the decorative scroll work on the metal tail piece to see if it's contributing to the noisiness. @carl h. did you remove yours?

The cheap stacked knobs I got were kind of crappy, needing some filing to get them to fit properly. Still, though, they are kind of crappy. I may buy better ones in the future.

I know have a variety of choices on tone! The sound has really opened up, allowing me to play around with the variety of sounds available. I can now see being much more free to play it live or record it.

I've had the hybrid, steel core E and A WeedWackers on for a few days now. It takes them a few days of tuning and stretching to settle in and stay in tune. I absolutely love the tension and the feel of them. One thing I've noticed, though, is that now the intonation on both the E and A is a bit off. I have to finger them about 1/4" higher (towards the nut) to play the octave than I do the D and G. As far as I remember, this was not the case with the Kevlar core E and A. I have played with the bridge position but no change. Yes, I can keep aware of having to shift position to get the proper note, but it's not conducive to playing quickly or cleanly. I would prefer to have everything intonate in the same location on the fingerboard. Any suggestions as to why this may be and how to change it?

I may also swap out the bridge in the future. I'm not a huge fan of this one.

 

[Inky13]

The "headphone jack" is for the stock pickup. The piezo is connected into the original harness via the jack and this is re-used with the new pre. The piezo lead terminates with a male 1/8 plug and using the old jack keeps it clean. You will lose the actual headphone jack with the replacement pre, but a headphone amp is easy enough to plug into and pretty cheap to get separately.

The power is now activated by plugging into the 1/4 output jack, removing one point of potential failure in the switch on the stock setup.

I've got no complaints with the pre and it has been flawless through years of gigs. The cheap knobs I picked up have been fine too. One of these days when I am feeling ambitious I'll replace the jack plates so they match. I've been using it exactly is it is in the photos I posted when I installed it and the 3 ply volume plate doesn't bother me at all when playing as nobody can see it.

Alternatively, could I bypass the pre all together and run the piezo into an outboard pre? Seems like it would be similar to a DB setup.

 

[carl h.]

Alternatively, could I bypass the pre all together and run the piezo into an outboard pre? Seems like it would be similar to a DB setup.

Yes, that can be done, but you will need to have a suitable pre everywhere you go. Since the instrument already has the cavities for onboard tone control why not take advantage? I'd never cut up an upright to add tone controls, and having them at your fingertips as you play is much easier to work with than having to lean over to an outboard device.

 

[Inky13]

Yes, that can be done, but you will need to have a suitable pre everywhere you go. Since the instrument already has the cavities for onboard tone control why not take advantage? I'd never cut up an upright to add tone controls, and having them at your fingertips as you play is much easier to work with than having to lean over to an outboard device.

That’s my thinking as well. Mine was wonky the other night and a new battery didn’t do much. Just looking at a cheap work around until I can get it sorted. The volume must of gotten lower than I thought because the bridge popped out! That, and I’m trying to rehab an old Juzek has me ready to light a funeral pyre. No, not really. You know how these thing go.

 

[carl h.]

I installed the new pre-amp yesterday. @carl h. thank you for not only the recommendation, but also for the pictures and directions on how to install it.

My first impressions are good! The new pre-amp cuts down the noisiness of the stock pickup a lot, but not totally. What I mean is, if I tap on the body, or on one of the new stacked knobs, or even if I set the treble a bit high when I touch the strings, you do hear tapping and finger noise noise transferring through the pickup. Is this normal? I assume so.

Yes, it is normal. It is vibration based rather than magnetic.

I'm considering removing the decorative scroll work on the metal tail piece to see if it's contributing to the noisiness. @carl h. did you remove yours?

I left mine alone other than wrapping it, and stuffing a small black nerf type ball under it.


I've had the hybrid, steel core E and A WeedWackers on for a few days now. It takes them a few days of tuning and stretching to settle in and stay in tune. I absolutely love the tension and the feel of them. One thing I've noticed, though, is that now the intonation on both the E and A is a bit off. I have to finger them about 1/4" higher (towards the nut) to play the octave than I do the D and G. As far as I remember, this was not the case with the Kevlar core E and A. I have played with the bridge position but no change. Yes, I can keep aware of having to shift position to get the proper note, but it's not conducive to playing quickly or cleanly. I would prefer to have everything intonate in the same location on the fingerboard. Any suggestions as to why this may be and how to change it?

Different strings will react differently. How is your nut height?

I may also swap out the bridge in the future. I'm not a huge fan of this one.


I'm not a fan either, but since I seldom bow it I'm leaving it, as it does work and it is paid for.

I did similar to you when I first played it after the upgrade, but I've come to leave it pretty much no boost/cut 99% of the time. I use it mostly to suit the room or music. Getting rid of the stock nonsense made a huge improvement to the sound of it. Too much bass can get overpowering and muddy and cutting bass sounds brittle, but full treble cut takes away the presence of the instrument and it gets lost in the mix. Mid really gets most of the work fixing mix issues on the fly.

 

[carl h.]

That’s my thinking as well. Mine was wonky the other night and a new battery didn’t do much. Just looking at a cheap work around until I can get it sorted. The volume must of gotten lower than I thought because the bridge popped out! That, and I’m trying to rehab an old Juzek has me ready to light a funeral pyre. No, not really. You know how these thing go.

The pre Gkon just installed is inexpensive and works well, plus it is so easy to put it in with simple tools and a piece of something for the new volume knob to be bolted on to.

I had a Roth brought to me in several boxes. It literally gave me nightmares while I was rebuilding it. Played like a champ when it was done, but went back to the school for more of the same life it had lived before I rebuilt it. At least the kid who got it first genuinely cared for it.

 

[GKon]

I did similar to you when I first played it after the upgrade, but I've come to leave it pretty much no boost/cut 99% of the time. I use it mostly to suit the room or music. Getting rid of the stock nonsense made a huge improvement to the sound of it. Too much bass can get overpowering and muddy and cutting bass sounds brittle, but full treble cut takes away the presence of the instrument and it gets lost in the mix. Mid really gets most of the work fixing mix issues on the fly.

Thanks for all the info. I'm a extremely happy with how easy this was to install, and just how much better the bass sounds. Worlds of difference.

To answer your question, I believe the nut height is good as I had adjusted it a couple of years back when I had to open up the slots to accept the thicker WeedWacker strings.
I'll double check to make sure. The diameter of the hybrid WW's is the same as the Kevlar WW's I had on previously.

So, by you saying "Different strings will react differently", do you mean it can be "normal" that the steel core strings intonate differently than the Kevlar core?

 

[Greg Potts]

Found my Tone Monster SBK-3AD preamp in the mailbox today and I just completed the initial testing. It's an amazing improvement, particularly with the bow. The A and D strings used to "honk" a lot when bowing, now I find it's much more civilized. Separate bass and treble controls are also much appreciated. Many thanks to Carl H. for sharing this.

Now I am kinda thinking I might want one of these in my FenderBird as well.

 

[Greg Potts]

Another morning of Palatino upgrades concluded... I bought a 4/4 bass endpin from a seller on eBay, removed the tailpiece and installed the endpin. Then I had to fabricate a sheet metal tailpiece anchored using the holes from the rubber feet on the bottom of the bass. It supports the weight of the bass and it seems to hold tune, but now the bass wiggles so much it's ridiculous. 100% unacceptable, and I didn't even try bowing it.

Thankfully I have a cello build coming up that I can use the endpin for, and the hole in the bottom of the bass isn't going to be seen by anyone else but me.

 

[carl h.]

The better/best quality cane tip from a good pharmacy is quite an improvement on the stock endpin. I really have no complaints with the stock setup with the better tip - no slippage and very little rotation.

Don't even bother with anything from a hardware store, they just do not work.

 

[Greg Potts]

Agreed. Bought a hardware store 4-pack of rubber covers and the first one wore through in about two weeks. Before I installed the second one I pushed a quarter down into the bottom of the cover and it hasn’t been a problem over the past two months since.

The better/best quality cane tip from a good pharmacy is quite an improvement on the stock endpin. I really have no complaints with the stock setup with the better tip - no slippage and very little rotation.

Don't even bother with anything from a hardware store, they just do not work.

 

[Don Hergert]

The pharmacy brand of cane tips that I've been able to find (and also available from Amazon) has a washer in the end of the tip, which is there to also accommodate canes that have the sharp ice-tip insert, and of course also works nicely with sharp point end-pins. Because of the washer, these tips work literally until the rubber wears out. I've also found for my bass's shorty fixed-length end-pin that a couple of coins in the cane tip allow for some convenient height adjustment.

 

[BarfanyShart]

The Palatino was my gigging instrument for years, and I just dug it out of the basement to clean it up and play it again. I never had a lot of problems with it, and played it totally stock plugged straight into an amp for a variety of styles of music. My main problems were 1) a thin, weak, and unnatural bowed sound; 2) generally noisy pickup; 3) a HUGE wolf on any A note, which comes out on the rare occasion that I am forced to stand directly in front of a powerful amp. I think these things are fixed with how I just set it up.

First, I changed the string to new Spirocore Red Mitchell's (I tune in fifths nowadays). The whole bass is super resonant now, and feels like it has 10 times the acoustic sound that it used to, I probably should not have been playing those stock strings for so long. The thing sounds great bowed now, with equal amplified volume to pizz. Also, the new tuning seems to have eliminated the wolf note I remember, but i guess i won't really know until somebody makes me stand in front of an Ampeg fridge, which is not likely to happen again at this stage of my life.

Then, I use the Acoustisonic amp model on my Rumble Studio 40, with the built-in noise gate activated. The simple noise gate fixes the general noisiniess of the pickup. I thought I would have to tweak separate patches for pizz and arco, but i am pleased that once the EQ is set for the room, I can switch from arco to pizz with the same patch and no volume adjustment.

So new strings and new amp with modern features seems to have fixed all of my problems with the instrument, and the thing sounds really great now.

 

[Marcus Willett]

Thought I might bump and share a pic. About 9 years ago I had a friend of mine do a sort-of antique violin finish on my Pally that turned out really nice. The finish is nitro, so it’s pretty delicate but I’m happy with the look.

I also have been experimenting with stand options...I used an NXT for several years and got used to having a setup wherein the bass was fixed in position and I could just walk up and play it, so I wanted something like that with the Pally. Pretty happy with the results so far.