I gave him the URL yesterday...
I just asked a moderator to merge this thread with the Palatino megathread...
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Double Bass Palatino Megathread part II
- Thread starter bassbob
- Start date
I gave him the URL yesterday...
I just asked a moderator to merge this thread with the Palatino megathread...
akmusicfreak,
You did so much good work on your Paly, I was surprised you decided to move on. Just out of curiosity... why did you decide to switch to another EUB, and which one are you getting and what do you like about it above the palatino (if you don't mind telling, of course). Best of luck to ya!
Hey all,
Does anybody know how I can order replacement tuners for the VE-500? I bought one used for $250 to cart around the city and use on gigs and rehearsals that I didn't really care about. The winder on the tuning peg was pretty stripped when I bought it, and after a few gigs the bass became on playable (un-tunable specifically)
If anybody has parts or knows where to get parts for this thing I'd be most grateful. I want to fix it up bit to use for a project. Or has anybody put standard UB tuners on it? I'd be cool with that too.
BTW... other than the tuning peg, its a cool bass!! I got it to sound pretty close to a real upright with a Fishman BP-100, Hybrid strings, and a Fishman Pro EQ. I plan on putting roundwounds on it and using it for a noise/metal drum'n bass duo.
Thanks!! Let me know!!
Does anybody know how I can order replacement tuners for the VE-500? I bought one used for $250 to cart around the city and use on gigs and rehearsals that I didn't really care about. The winder on the tuning peg was pretty stripped when I bought it, and after a few gigs the bass became on playable (un-tunable specifically)
If anybody has parts or knows where to get parts for this thing I'd be most grateful. I want to fix it up bit to use for a project. Or has anybody put standard UB tuners on it? I'd be cool with that too.
BTW... other than the tuning peg, its a cool bass!! I got it to sound pretty close to a real upright with a Fishman BP-100, Hybrid strings, and a Fishman Pro EQ. I plan on putting roundwounds on it and using it for a noise/metal drum'n bass duo.
Thanks!! Let me know!!
I'll try to keep it brief:
Got tired of carrying a stand around to hold the thing when I wasn't playing.
After all the mods I still wasn't completely happy with it.
It was kinda wobbly to hold while playing and the neck shape was quit uncomfortable compared to my DB.
I was always worried about the cheap Chinese construction of it. (have you seen the pics of these things when you drop em)
I could go on a bit more in this vain, but needless to say after all was said and done. I was just not happy.
So I bought an Ergo EUB, it's hand built in Tenn.
Made from a solid piece of wood, very sturdy.
It's connected to a tripod stand, so it's easy to walk away from and not worry about.
Customer service is great.
And according to the posts it's a nice sounding EUB, and the most you'll have to find for it are newstrings (very common for alot of instruments) A preamp (but only if your amp can't handle the impeadance)
And a carrying case which is pretty easy to find. I plan to make on out of PVC pipe and foam for probably less than $40.
So for $650 the Ergo is a great instrument.
try this site he has some I just don't know for sure if it will work with the Paly.
https://www.gollihurmusic.com/index.cfm
That's funny, because I actually sold my Ergo in favor of buying a Palatino. Different strokes for different folks.
I will say that the Ergo was a fine instrument, but my two main hangups were:
1. The scale, feel, and lack of some type of body (upper bout) made it difficult to keep proper form.
2. The sound was cool, but it's doesn't sound like an URB, nor does it sound like a fretless bass. The Ergo has a sound all its own, and that's cool, but not what I wanted.
For me, the Palatino is just what I need. I'm primarily an electric player, so I keep the Paly around for the occasional upright call (or studio, etc...). It's relatively easy to take around (easier than an URB) and pretty much maintenance free. Although, I would love to own a real URB someday.
With regard to the mods, I recently replaced my endpin with a dowel rod and put some foam in the bridge. This has made a nice difference, and cut down on the high frequency feedback during arco passages. I'd recommend both mods, and they are really cheap.
I totally, absolutely agree with you on the Paly's neck being uncomfortable. It's WAY too thick in my opinion... and probably a health hazard as I got tired really quickly while playing it (though it made playing an Electric bass feel like I was playing a ukulele... so that's a bonus!)
I took the bass to a local luthier who makes wonderful basses. I'm having him thin out the neck for me. So I hope that goes well... I was a bit worried that the fact they put a truss rod in there might weaken the neck too much for him to be able to thin it out. But he assured me that it would be fine. So I've got my fingers crossed.
The reason I went with the Paly instead of something like the Ergo is because I wanted a bass with a D neck. And the Ergo doesn't really look like it has that much of a heel (if it even has one at all), which I depend on so much.
Something that I didn't like on my Paly was that it was a D neck, my DB has an Eb and I've grown quite use to it.
From the pictures I can see a very small heal on the Ergo.
I'll find out soon enough.
I've gotten my bass back from the luthier... and I have to say that I'm very happy right now with everything except for one thing (more on that later). To start, here's what I had done...
1. Replace the nut with a new ebony nut.
2. Reshape the stock bridge
3. reshape/sand down/smooth out the "ebony" fingerboard.
4. thin down the neck
5. Replace the strings with D'Addario Helicore Hybrids
Improvements:
I've found the biggest improvements to be in the tone and playability of the bass. I think that the new strings and the new ebony nut were the major factors in improvement in tone.
Reshaping the neck, fingerboard, and nut made this bass MUCH more easier to play. It feels like I'm playing a real upright bass now (even though it is a slightly shorter scale... I guess it's about a 5/8 scale instead of the normal 3/4). Also, replacing those heavy *ss strings that came stock with the bass made a world of a difference as well. I'm also pleased to announce that I can actually use a bow on this bass now too!
Issues
Now let me get to what I was really upset with. The fingerboard is NOT ebony. At least not on the bass that I received. the Palatino website says the fingerboard is ebony... not ebonized or anything else. I don't know if someone switched out the fingerboard or what. I'm not trying to say Palatino is lying... unless they actually are... so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. The fact that it's not ebony doesn't really bother me... I can live with a bass that doesn't have an ebony fingerboard. But if I am told a bass has an ebony finger board... it better be ebony! I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this or knows anything about this... but I'd like to hear if someone else has any information or can direct me to prior posts on this.
Note: I did not change the stock bridge. The luthier told me that he didn't think that changing the bridge would have had much of an impact on the sound of the bass, but he was quick to mention that the adjusters were of REALLY poor quality. So I decided to leave that project for a later time (or to just leave it as is). I also did not change any of the electronics because I'm currently only playing all by my lonesome and I don't care to invest the money on these things at the moment. I'm just trying to get back into the world of playing the upright bass
Conclusion
So... in the end. I currently think that this is the best entry level EUBs you can get (especially for under $1K ...including the costs of work that I had put into it so far). In my opinion, this thing now sounds better than the old school-owned Engelhardt that I once had temporary ownership of (it had been given a major overhaul before the school lent it to me).
I know there are better ones out there (Eminence, Yamaha Silent), but I'm not a professional musician and right now I mainly play the electric bass, so I can't justify the costs of those instruments right now.
Also, I was really happy to see how impressed my luthier was with this bass (and he's not too fond of Chinese instruments). He's fixed many cheap Chinese basses in his day... and I think that this one really surprised him. Of course, he was completely confused about why they put a truss rod in the neck, but was unable to get it out due to the volute on the headstock getting in the way. While I was there, he showed me a Chinese bass that a customer had brought in. He said it required $1K worth of work... just to make it playable (the original bass cost the customer $700... I guess they should have just gotten an Engelhardt).
Now I've just got my fingers crossed that the thing doesn't fall apart on me... I'll wait a couple of years and hope I'm one of the lucky ones.
Oh yeah... I also don't like stick EUBs... so I haven't considered any of those basses.
1. Replace the nut with a new ebony nut.
2. Reshape the stock bridge
3. reshape/sand down/smooth out the "ebony" fingerboard.
4. thin down the neck
5. Replace the strings with D'Addario Helicore Hybrids
Improvements:
I've found the biggest improvements to be in the tone and playability of the bass. I think that the new strings and the new ebony nut were the major factors in improvement in tone.
Reshaping the neck, fingerboard, and nut made this bass MUCH more easier to play. It feels like I'm playing a real upright bass now (even though it is a slightly shorter scale... I guess it's about a 5/8 scale instead of the normal 3/4). Also, replacing those heavy *ss strings that came stock with the bass made a world of a difference as well. I'm also pleased to announce that I can actually use a bow on this bass now too!
Issues
Now let me get to what I was really upset with. The fingerboard is NOT ebony. At least not on the bass that I received. the Palatino website says the fingerboard is ebony... not ebonized or anything else. I don't know if someone switched out the fingerboard or what. I'm not trying to say Palatino is lying... unless they actually are... so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. The fact that it's not ebony doesn't really bother me... I can live with a bass that doesn't have an ebony fingerboard. But if I am told a bass has an ebony finger board... it better be ebony! I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this or knows anything about this... but I'd like to hear if someone else has any information or can direct me to prior posts on this.
Note: I did not change the stock bridge. The luthier told me that he didn't think that changing the bridge would have had much of an impact on the sound of the bass, but he was quick to mention that the adjusters were of REALLY poor quality. So I decided to leave that project for a later time (or to just leave it as is). I also did not change any of the electronics because I'm currently only playing all by my lonesome and I don't care to invest the money on these things at the moment. I'm just trying to get back into the world of playing the upright bass
Conclusion
So... in the end. I currently think that this is the best entry level EUBs you can get (especially for under $1K ...including the costs of work that I had put into it so far). In my opinion, this thing now sounds better than the old school-owned Engelhardt that I once had temporary ownership of (it had been given a major overhaul before the school lent it to me).
I know there are better ones out there (Eminence, Yamaha Silent), but I'm not a professional musician and right now I mainly play the electric bass, so I can't justify the costs of those instruments right now.
Also, I was really happy to see how impressed my luthier was with this bass (and he's not too fond of Chinese instruments). He's fixed many cheap Chinese basses in his day... and I think that this one really surprised him. Of course, he was completely confused about why they put a truss rod in the neck, but was unable to get it out due to the volute on the headstock getting in the way. While I was there, he showed me a Chinese bass that a customer had brought in. He said it required $1K worth of work... just to make it playable (the original bass cost the customer $700... I guess they should have just gotten an Engelhardt).
Now I've just got my fingers crossed that the thing doesn't fall apart on me... I'll wait a couple of years and hope I'm one of the lucky ones.
Oh yeah... I also don't like stick EUBs... so I haven't considered any of those basses.
Well, this weekend I have made my own piezo pre-amp for a few pence
http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/index.html
and stuck it into my Palatino. It sounds good! I can now get high frequencies out of it without horrible hiss. I need to fix a grounding issue, but so far through my markbass mini CMD 121P it's working a treat. I'm going to try it through my sadowsky pre into the MB next. Next up for the mods, a thicker body rest so I can rotate my body when using my german bow to play the E string and also new strings. Hurrah! I love my project bass
http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/index.html
and stuck it into my Palatino. It sounds good! I can now get high frequencies out of it without horrible hiss. I need to fix a grounding issue, but so far through my markbass mini CMD 121P it's working a treat. I'm going to try it through my sadowsky pre into the MB next. Next up for the mods, a thicker body rest so I can rotate my body when using my german bow to play the E string and also new strings. Hurrah! I love my project bass
I just got my Ergo in yesterday, IMO the Ergo is a far superior EUB. All I did to it was change the strings and run it thru my Fishman Pro EQ, and it sounds awesome. With a little bit of EQing I got a very nice convincing DB sound. The Ergo I also find to be way more comfortable to play.
I did so much work on the Paly to make it sound better, and still didn't get the results I was looking for (you can dig through the thread to see), and never got a convincing DB sound with it, at least for my ears.
I lost some money selling my Paly and regret buying it in the first place, but don't regret at all buying the Ergo for $650.
Goodbye cheap Chinese EUB from a faceless company.
And hello good US made EUB from a real person in Tenn. who hand made it for me.
...I am back to playing acoustic UB whenever it is possible to mic it.
After modding the Palatino by installing a wooden dowel endpin, foam damping the tailpiece, shimming the underside of the pickup with balsa, and putting on a set of Corelli strings, I used the Palatino almost exclusively for about two months of regular gigs. It played well and produced a sound very like the acoustice DB with a piezo pickup. Indeed, the Paly's sound was superior to the pickup'd acoustic DB in as much as it is more consitent and controllable.
But, it made me realize that the natural sound of an acoustic DB, even my cheap "Dvorak" acoustic DB, is vastly superior.
I have gone back to the old days of trying to mic my acoustic DB. I have had some success lately with a cardiod condenser mic on a gooseneck. I know it's a bit risky for feedback, but so far it is working well at my live jazz gigs in small restaurants. And the acoustic DB's stage presence connotes more of a traditional jazz mojo.
From now on, I will use the Palatino at any gig in which I need a bass with a pickup (i.e., where it is not practical to have an acoustic bass with a mic). The Palatino's sound is superior to the piezo pickup sound I get from my acoustic DB.
After modding the Palatino by installing a wooden dowel endpin, foam damping the tailpiece, shimming the underside of the pickup with balsa, and putting on a set of Corelli strings, I used the Palatino almost exclusively for about two months of regular gigs. It played well and produced a sound very like the acoustice DB with a piezo pickup. Indeed, the Paly's sound was superior to the pickup'd acoustic DB in as much as it is more consitent and controllable.
But, it made me realize that the natural sound of an acoustic DB, even my cheap "Dvorak" acoustic DB, is vastly superior.
I have gone back to the old days of trying to mic my acoustic DB. I have had some success lately with a cardiod condenser mic on a gooseneck. I know it's a bit risky for feedback, but so far it is working well at my live jazz gigs in small restaurants. And the acoustic DB's stage presence connotes more of a traditional jazz mojo.
From now on, I will use the Palatino at any gig in which I need a bass with a pickup (i.e., where it is not practical to have an acoustic bass with a mic). The Palatino's sound is superior to the piezo pickup sound I get from my acoustic DB.
Do you mind me asking what your set up is on your DB? I have a decent sound with a pickup on my DB with a piezo, one still better than an EUB.
That's pretty much what I am using, I'm using a Bassmax, a Plat Pro EQ and sometimes powered PA speaker( old Peavy Procys) or a Genz-Benz intro 90.
I guess everybass is different.
Have you ever tried blending your mic with your pickups? You might get a more natural sound at higher spl levels if not completely reliant on the mic only.
Either way to each his own.
I guess everybass is different.
Have you ever tried blending your mic with your pickups? You might get a more natural sound at higher spl levels if not completely reliant on the mic only.
Either way to each his own.
Guys,
I will always have a soft spot in my head and heart for the old VE500 and also for the Ergo 4 string I had for a short while. The shell of the palatino does lend itself to a variety of mods and I think tried most of them wth varying degrees of success.
I also worked on the Ergo bridge and the neck/strings/tuner issues also. The Ergo really has a great minimalist vibe going for it. If I could've used it with a end pin I might have kept it.
I did come to the point where the design limits on both basses finally caught up to me. I got a deal on an Eminence bass and never looked back. ( It turned out that I was trying make the VE 500 into an Eminence a little at a time. )
I know choices are often driven by budgets and I was there too. I think the goal is to get the best bass you can afford or maybe even more than you can afford. It's one of those pay me now or pay me later kind of quandaries.
Anyway, I notice the hits on those VE 500 videos I put on Youtube continue to rise. Hopefully someone is getting some use out of those. ( I started to wonder if a bunch of potheads or methfreaks were tuning in for awhile. : )
I will always have a soft spot in my head and heart for the old VE500 and also for the Ergo 4 string I had for a short while. The shell of the palatino does lend itself to a variety of mods and I think tried most of them wth varying degrees of success.
I also worked on the Ergo bridge and the neck/strings/tuner issues also. The Ergo really has a great minimalist vibe going for it. If I could've used it with a end pin I might have kept it.
I did come to the point where the design limits on both basses finally caught up to me. I got a deal on an Eminence bass and never looked back. ( It turned out that I was trying make the VE 500 into an Eminence a little at a time. )
I know choices are often driven by budgets and I was there too. I think the goal is to get the best bass you can afford or maybe even more than you can afford. It's one of those pay me now or pay me later kind of quandaries.
Anyway, I notice the hits on those VE 500 videos I put on Youtube continue to rise. Hopefully someone is getting some use out of those. ( I started to wonder if a bunch of potheads or methfreaks were tuning in for awhile. : )
Bob,
I'm totally jealous of you! I would LOVE to have an Eminence bass. But like you said... I was driven by budget (and the fact that I do not make a living off of playing music). I've never actually played an Eminence, so I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on what exactly you found to be better on the Eminence over the Palatino. I know it may be a long list, but I'm just curious.
I'm totally jealous of you! I would LOVE to have an Eminence bass. But like you said... I was driven by budget (and the fact that I do not make a living off of playing music). I've never actually played an Eminence, so I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on what exactly you found to be better on the Eminence over the Palatino. I know it may be a long list, but I'm just curious.
I was impressed with mine in some ways, but got such a horrible tone out on my first gig with it (tough glass tiled room, no soundcheck...) that I didn't ever play it much. Traded it on CL for a Carvin 6'er with piezos... a $1200 bass!
