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Passive Bass with Buffer into Passive DI

C

confuoco

Sep 24, 2013
77
58
#1
So, I'm well aware of the passive bass>active DI due to different impedence and treble loss etc. I've also read that adding a buffer totally nullifies this wisdom. So here if my question regarding LIVE applications: almost everyone I know runs their pedal board into their DI, including myself I have a chain with a preamp and potentially a buffer, Should I be running my RNDI or my JDI. I know both will ultimately sound good, but if we are talking about sending the most quality sound to FOH I'm curious. I've done both and sounded great, but to be honest I usually work with top notch sound guys and they could likely make me sound good playing a rubber band tied to a kleenex box, that being said, Im going on tour in Europe where there will be a language barrier and I want to just send a good signal to FOH without any issues. My chain is usually passive P Bass>Strobostomp (set to true bypass)>DCX Bass(sometimes a Broughton Studio Boost Mini)>Cali76 CB (sometimes an Empress Bass Comp)>Broughton HPF>RNDI or JDI (usually depends on the venue and reliability of the sound guy/board). I have a Broughton Buffer/Bandwith Amplifier I could also add in if that's worth it, but I'm not sure it makes a ton of sense. I usually just keep it in my bag with the JDI incase my gig case gets stolen and I *need* an emergency rig which would be the JDI and the buffer.

For the record this is a country band and I'm ultimately going for a harmonically saturated clean tone. I record using a Neve 1073 with an LA2A.

Anyways, just to reiterate: with my current set up as follows:
passive P Bass>20ft cable>Strobostomp (set to true bypass)>DCX Bass(sometimes a Broughton Studio Boost Mini)>Cali76 CB (sometimes an Empress Comp)>Broughton HPF
should I be running into the JDI or RNDI for the most optimal FOH signal? I am *personally* happy with both sounds, but I'm mostly asking for the sound guys ease, because Im going to Sweden on tour and I know theres going to be a language barrier.
 
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#4
confuoco said:
So, I'm well aware of the passive bass>active DI due to different impedence and treble loss etc.
Click to expand...

this said, if you do it, nothing really bad will happen. well, unless you have a really long cable.

if you're really worried with that, any enabled pedal acts as a buffer, so takes care of it.

I'd go with JDI if you want a working setup with less to none words. using a RNDI would sometimes need you to tell the soundman, you need the phantom power.
 
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#5
As Andy points out, your signal is already buffered coming out of the chain so your choice of DI actually isn't all that critical. The RNDI, being active, will sound a little different than the passive JDI but it's not going to be night and day. Either one is going to send a good signal to FOH so whichever sounds best to you is going to work out fine. Conventional wisdom might say that your buffered signal should go through a passive DI but, in the end, a DI is just an impedance-matching device which, ideally, does its job with as little coloration as possible. Whether it does that with ICs or transformers or both doesn't matter as long as it does it well. Either of your DIs is a quality unit. Either will send a good signal out front. If the house engineer is using his or her own quality DI, that will work, too.
 
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#8
byacey said:
The active DI will have a little more self noise compared to the passive when fed from a relatively low output impedance of a pedal. Nothing too objectionable for live sound, though.
Click to expand...
Would placing my Broughton Buffer/Bandwidth Amplifier help with that? (Buffer Bandwidth Amplifier | Broughton Audio in case you aren't familiar). Its supposed to cut useless frequences above/below the frequency range of a bass guitar. I could also add an HPF/LPF at the end of my chain to try and wash the noise from the signal.

Sounds like the JDI might be the way to go though for ease of use.
 
#10
confuoco said:
Would placing my Broughton Buffer/Bandwidth Amplifier help with that? (Buffer Bandwidth Amplifier | Broughton Audio in case you aren't familiar). Its supposed to cut useless frequences above/below the frequency range of a bass guitar. I could also add an HPF/LPF at the end of my chain to try and wash the noise from the signal.

Sounds like the JDI might be the way to go though for ease of use.
Click to expand...
Just go passive- one less thing to go wrong and no real downside (any pedal that is on will buffer the signal so you shouldn't have any frequency losses with a passive DI).
 
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#15
lowfreqgeek said:
With everything else going on in that signal chain and being used in a live setting, the DI is gonna have the absolute least impact on the tone.
Click to expand...
Here I was thinking I was keeping it simple with just a preamp, compressor, and tuner 😅

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm going to stick with the JDI and bring the RNDI as a backup just incase.

@corvette_br Thanks for the heads up about the English. Honestly makes me feel a lot better because I barely speak English let alone Swedish lol.
 
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#16
People in Sweden (and most of Western/Central Europe for that matter) generally speak very good English. I honestly don't see how a language barrier could become a problem at all. At least not for something as simple as doing a soundcheck and connecting a DI box. The ONLY Western/Central European country I've ever had any problems whatsoever communicating in English is France, and even there it's ok most of the time. In some (but not all) East European countries it can sometimes be a bit more challenging, but people working at live venues will generally speak decent English all over Europe.

With your setup the difference between the JDI and the RNDI is pretty much negligible from the FOH engineer's (or the audience's) perspective. If anything, the question you could perhaps ask yourself instead is whether you should use ANY of these two DI boxes, or a different DI box altogether. Both the JDI and the RNDI have a rather low output. Live sound engineers are typically used to DI boxes with a significantly higher output. This shouldn't matter at all as long as the mixer has decent quality micpres (and at venues in Europe they generally do). Still, if your objective is to make the job easier for the FOH engineer, you might want to consider using a DI box with a more "normal" output for live sound, but I really don't think it will matter at all.

As for active vs passive, all the most commonly used DI boxes for live sound in Europe are active. Phantom power won't be a problem. I have NEVER played a venue in Europe that couldn't provide phantom power for a DI box. In fact, if I personally had to choose active or passive for a live gig I would go active, because it's usually the allround safest choice. But I never actually have to make this choice because...

...I never bother bringing a DI box to a live gig at all anymore. I've played lots of gigs all over Western/Central Europe and I have never, ever needed to bring a DI box. The venue has ALWAYS provided plenty of good quality DI boxes. Typically BSS, Countryman or (pre-Behringer) Klart Teknik. All very good DI boxes. Will they sound the same as a JDI/RNDI? No, they're slightly different sounding, but not better or worse, just SLIGHTLY different. Will the difference matter? In a studio/recording setting, sure (although rather marginally). But at a live gig... not at all. No-one in the audience will hear a difference whatsoever.

It would be almost unthinkable for a decent venue in Sweden to not provide enough DI boxes for the entire band. It would be comparable to a venue that doesn't provide mics for the vocals/amps/drums. If anything, FOH engineers will probably prefer using DI boxes they know and trust. In my experience FOH engineers will nearly always prefer using the house DI boxes and tend to give people funny looks if they bring their own. If you're in doubt, check the technical specs for the venues. I'm pretty sure they will have plenty of DI boxes.

If you're using the house backline you might even find a DI box already connected and waiting for you on stage when you arrive. Changing to your JDI/RNDI will then just be an unnecessary distraction and a waste of time from the FOH engineer's perspective.

You can expect decent venues in Sweden to have professional FOH engineers, rather just "some guy" who doesn't know what he's doing. It will depend on the venue though. If it's small pub/cafe type of gigs, all bets are off, but those are the kinds of gigs where there might not even be PA (except for the vocals) so you wouldn't actually need a DI box for the bass. Anything from small club venues and upwards should have a sufficient number of good quality DI boxes and a decent, English speaking engineer.

If it was me, I would leave the JDI/RNDI at home and use the DI boxes provided by the venues. Less stuff to carry around and less stuff that can get stolen.
 
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#17
A variable high pass filter should be in every signal chain. The only red flag that I see in your signal chain is the 20 foot cable. Use one only as long as you need, in general shorter is better. If that has to be 20 feet, fine. Don’t loop it, snake it back and forth on the floor.
 

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