You seem angry. When I feel a tantrum coming up, I find it soothing to count my EBMM basses. By the time I get to the end, I have already forgotten what I was upset about in the first place.
Hope that helps.
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Passive Music Man Basses Update
- Thread starter bovinehost
- Start date
You seem angry. When I feel a tantrum coming up, I find it soothing to count my EBMM basses. By the time I get to the end, I have already forgotten what I was upset about in the first place.
Hope that helps.
What? They did have a Music Man logo on them.
They were fantastic basses (and still are), basically a Stingray Classic without the fancy finish, string mutes and body through stringing (the last one is a plus for me).
I've also heard a version that they actually sold so well, EBMM was losing money and losing sales on Stingrays. Could have been the opposite though (bad sales), who knows.
All I know is, those are legitimate Music Man instruments, well worth the price point (I've seen their prices go up lately, sometimes ridiculously so).
So under your logic, the original 1951 P bass and Broadcaster guitars were fails because they are now discontinued. Sad.
Sorry Buddy but your post doesn't make sense, the Caprice and Cutlass are two years old compared to the P Bass which is still around today. Yes there have been modifications to it but it is predominatley the same Bass. What do you not get about FAILURE and SUCCESS?
Your definition is success and failure must be completely different than mine. Introducing and then discontinuing an item doesn’t necessarily mean the product was a failure. There could be a number of reasons for the discontinuation many are outside of sales levels. You don’t conisider opportunity costs or production costs for example in any of your responses. You simply believe that because the product is discontinued, it was a failure. And for whatever reason, you are adamant that it was a failure. I’m not so sure it was. EBMM could have simply been testing the waters with that type of product. Manufacturers do it all of the time. Now, if EBMM decided to go all in on these basses and adbandon the Stingray to do it, then yes, I would also consider it a failure. But they didn’t. The only failure here would have been if they never tried.
You have just explained it perfectly!. They should have gone all out to sell it via marketing etc which they did not do, so it is their FAILURE. It aint that hard to understand how businesses should work and EB were left wanting in regards to the two Basses. We are not going to agree so move on as there is nothing more to see here.
I think the only people in a position to call this a failure is the senior management at EBMM. Honestly, companies pull products all the time for different reasons other than lack of sales success. Poorly structured supply agreements, Patent issues, Force majeure are all reasons why companies pull products from the marketplace, even if sales are strong.
I am not saying that’s the case here (see my comment above).
I play a Stingray, have owned 3 over the years, but also have Fender and Ibanez in my house. So no fanboy here, just to take that off the table.
Your condescending tone isn’t winning anything here. And that would be a ... fail.
If the products were successful, EBMM would continue to make them. I think we all get your point. But your communication style comes across like you’re trying to compensate for something. Maybe chill a bit and let the world be a more pleasant place.
The dude probably thinks that every manufacturer ever is a fail.
I mean, Mercedes-Benz, for example, must be an epic fail as I can't go to my local dealer and buy a new SSK. Sad.
I apologize (NOT) for using a car analogy.
One could do the same with ANY market sector, really.
Briton seems to take a quite negative and simplistic view on this matter - that the whole venture was a fail (ure). I tend to think this oversimplifies the matter and none of us can possibly know the full story, unless someone from EBMM has shared this with them.
I would take a broader view. I believe their production lead time is significant, they are about to issue some changes to the Sterling bass, have just introduced an upgraded Stingray which appears to be very well received and in demand - why would they not wish to focus their production on product which is more in demand, and possibly more profitable.
None of this is to say these passive basses haven't been successful (they may have been profitable, who knows...) - they're certainly, by all accounts, a good product so there's two potential non-fails for starters.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we should remember opinions are just that - coming at it from a negative, one size fits all, black and white (rather than shades of grey) angle is certainly flavour of the month (particularly in British and US politics currently) it's not a balanced or intelligent approach.
I would take a broader view. I believe their production lead time is significant, they are about to issue some changes to the Sterling bass, have just introduced an upgraded Stingray which appears to be very well received and in demand - why would they not wish to focus their production on product which is more in demand, and possibly more profitable.
None of this is to say these passive basses haven't been successful (they may have been profitable, who knows...) - they're certainly, by all accounts, a good product so there's two potential non-fails for starters.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but we should remember opinions are just that - coming at it from a negative, one size fits all, black and white (rather than shades of grey) angle is certainly flavour of the month (particularly in British and US politics currently) it's not a balanced or intelligent approach.
It's got nothing to do with positives and negatives, it is based on FACT!. Say if someone loses a football match, it isn't negative to say that they have failed because they lost. It is just a FACT. I cannot believe that I have to simply the meaning when something has succeded and when something as failed.Just admit that it was a failure and don't worry about being put in Big Poppas black book for saying the obvious. I am sure he will not demote you to Corporal status for that.........
Bummer - I play mostly P5s now and I bet they would have made the be-all, end-all P5.
I really can't be asked with this but let's all pretend it's a failure for the sake of all of our sanities. You may also think I'm a snowflake and various others things including a helpless puppet of an evil EBMM organisation (you are wrong on every conceivable front there). I may think your views are unintelligent and deluded (unless the Big Poppa stuff was a joke). But it really doesn't matter.Just admit that it was a failure and don't worry about being put in Big Poppas black book for saying the obvious. I am sure he will not demote you to Corporal status for that.........
However this is a FACT - you really should grow up and stop behaving like an eejut of the highest order. Now where is that ignore button!! I'm off to count my EBMM basses!!
Last edited:
- Dec 5, 2002
- 4,165
- 2,254
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Ernie Ball Music Man/Sterling By Music Man
Ignore seems like a great idea. When someone, not naming names here, can only spew vitriol and venom and explain to we poor uneducated souls what certain terms mean and then call us idiots because we're not quite as effin' mean as he is, it's time for "ignore".
Thanks for reminding me.
Thanks for reminding me.
Well I won't lose sleep over that one for sure! And I haven't called anyone an idiot, but your buddy from the EB forum drtststingray or what ever his name is has referred to me as being an idiot. These EB fanboys need to understand that this is not the EB forum and criticism of EB items is acceptable, especially when there is proof to back the criticism up
Oh and bovinehost less of the bad language son.....Amen!
Oh and bovinehost less of the bad language son.....Amen!
It's drTStingray......
And I suggested you were behaving like one (but all opinions are just that - opinions).
Make your mind up mate, you either hit the ignore button and leave it that way or have a change of heart and re-instate me. Either way I don't care, oh and changing the word idiot to eejut doesn't make the characterization different.
I agree that I’m not crazy about the overseas production but it’s only because I like to see American business like EBMM survive. I have owned an original EBMM stingray, Ray34, and now a Sterling by MusicMan SB14. I love my SB14, better sounding bass ( to my ears ) when compared to the other MusicMan flavors, also love the prefecture straight neck and string spacing. I’m a “tone woods” guy but have to say the bass wood body on this bass sounds amazing. I don’t think the overseas stuff will effect the the really deal ( EBMM ). Just look at fender, people still want a jazz or P that says “Fender” on it and MIA. I played a pile of MIA Fender jazz basses to find the one I have now ( 2008 MIA jazz ), even went with a color I didnt want just because it had the best tone. Fender MIA does has terrible QC , EBMM does not ! I think anyone looking for a P or jazz should consider one of the many other brands making these same models. I know, getting off topic a bit. I would tell anyone to save a bit more and buy an American made EBMM as they are built so well and will last a life time! Prices have increased but they have with all the major brands so it is what it is.
I think we all agree it's a COMMERCIAL failure, but there is no need for spitting venom as from a product perspective EBMM has put up 2 fantastic instruments, arguably one of the best P on the market and something not quite a J but doing its wonderful own stuff. You HAVE TO respect a company that is not only trying but also executing so well on something outside of their standard area.
I think none of us here can really understand what happened (change in the market, volume sold, difficulty in marketing positioning, dealer refusing to push that product, production capacity, price point etc...), would love to have all the data and dig to where the challenge was but that's probably the MBA-Geek personal interest.
I have no anger neither bitterness against EBMM, actually on the contrary have now higher respect for being product-focus. I acknowledge that the guitar/bass market is currently under pressure and from a business perspective although they need to stay strong in their core skills (new stingray demonstrated this beautifully) they also need to explore.
In anycase my Caprice and Cutlass are here to stay, finally played my Cutlass outside of the home rehearsal and oh boy it delivered!
I think none of us here can really understand what happened (change in the market, volume sold, difficulty in marketing positioning, dealer refusing to push that product, production capacity, price point etc...), would love to have all the data and dig to where the challenge was but that's probably the MBA-Geek personal interest.
I have no anger neither bitterness against EBMM, actually on the contrary have now higher respect for being product-focus. I acknowledge that the guitar/bass market is currently under pressure and from a business perspective although they need to stay strong in their core skills (new stingray demonstrated this beautifully) they also need to explore.
In anycase my Caprice and Cutlass are here to stay, finally played my Cutlass outside of the home rehearsal and oh boy it delivered!
