Passive Music Man Basses Update

[two fingers]

I believe all of this is simpler than any of you are making it out to be.

This is simple market positioning.

You don't go to McDonald's for healthy food. They have tried to market all kinds of healthy food choices and all of them have flopped. Why? That's not what we want from McDonald's. Nobody thinks about McDonald's when they are trying to decide where to get healthy food.

Fender and EB just learned the same lesson.

Nobody thinks about Fender when they want a bass with a humbucker at the bridge. I can give you two examples. The American Deluxe Precision from the early 2000s (yes, wonderful basses) and the Dimension. Both times Fender took a swipe at EB's market and it failed.

EB did the same with these basses. It doesn't MATTER that they were awesome. To the AVERAGE buyer, these were Fender wannabes from "the Stingray guys".

You guys are thinking like the bass nerds WE are, not average bass consumers. We will step outside the box and buy a "Fender" from EB because we eat, sleep and crap basses. We research and talk them to death. But the average consumer will go to Fender for that kind if bass and EB for a bucker at the bridge (or sweet spot.... whatever you wanna call it).

And there are tons more of them than there are us.

Don't overthink it. Did the price jump have some affect? Sure. But these basses were likely destined for this path anyway.

For the most part, nobody thinks Subaru for construction vehicles. And nobody thinks EB when they want a P bass or a PJ.

Market positioning. Business 101. (I think anyway. I've never taken a college business course.)

 

[Chiliwailer]

You guys are thinking like the bass nerds WE are, not average bass consumers. We will step outside the box and buy a "Fender" from EB because we eat, sleep and crap basses.

 

[Skillet]

If Subaru made a work truck I'd be all over it! If it was affordable.

 

[Briton]

There are some ridiculous statements in this thread, but congratulations for having the MOST ridiculous of them all!

Well in business if you design something then put it out for sale and then you withdraw it, it is seen as being a "FAIL". The problem is that the consumer just didn't like them, and that is why they didn't sell.......Simples!

 

[Briton]

Was it a fail when Fender discontinued the highly successful Squier Classic Vibe basses?

Just because a line of basses is discontinued doesn’t mean it was a fail.

Yes it obviously was!

 

[two fingers]

If Subaru made a work truck I'd be all over it! If it was affordable.

But they don't make one.... and WON'T make one. Why? Because people don't look to Subaru for huge trucks with the towing capacity of a small town.

Duncan Doughnuts is not going to start selling salads.

Look at the recent IHOB (International House Of Burgers?) debacle. What a silly think. People don't turn to IHOP for burgers in massive numbers.

Very few established companies are able to get away with getting out of their lanes.

We've seen it here with Fender over and over again. Pretty much everything they sell with strings today was conceived in the 50s or 60s or earlier. Nobody wants "something new and different" from Fender.

 

[Rib 13]

I believe all if this is simpler than any of you are ....-snip-

most certainly a logical possibility

 

[Stevorebob]

I believe all if this is simpler than any of you are making it out to be.

This is simple market positioning.

You don't go to McDonald's for healthy food. They have tried to market all kinds of healthy food choices and all of them have flopped. Why? That's not what we want from McDonald's. Nobody thinks about McDonald's when they are trying to decide where to get healthy food.

Fender and EB just learned the same lesson.

Nobody thinks about Fender when they want a bass with a humbucker at the bridge. I can give you two examples. The American Deluxe Precision from the early 2000s (yes, wonderful basses) and the Dimension. Bith times Fender took a swipe at EB's market and it failed.

EB did the same with these basses. It doesn't MATTER that they were awesome. To the AVERAGE buyer, these were Fender wannabes from "the Stingray guys".

You guys are thinking like the bass nerds WE are, not average bass consumers. We will step outside the box and buy a "Fender" from EB because we eat, sleep and crap basses. We research and talk them to death. But the average consumer will go to Fender for that kind if bass and EB for a bucker at the bridge (or sweet spot.... whatever you wanna call it).

And there are tons more of them than there are us.

Don't overthink it. Did the price jump have some affect? Sure. But these basses were likely destined for this path anyway.

For the most part, nobody thinks Subaru for construction vehicles. And nobody thinks EB when they want a P bass or a PJ.

Market positioning. Business 101. (I think anyway. I've never taken a college business course.)

Was about to post a robust rebuttal, then I realized just how spot on you are.

 

[knight of ni]

Nobody wants "something new and different" from Fender.

Or from MusicMan as it seems (actually many people don't want something new and different. you've have to think about if you can benefit from it, how and why, it is a source of discomfort.). I wonder if moving discontinued models to SBMM at a lower price would work. But my guess from the recent renaming of anything SBMM as a "Ray" bass is "no". People just want Stringrays just like they want P and J basses.

 

[RBrownBass]

I mean... Gibson did it with those EBs. I have one and it's pretty nice. It's right in line with what I expect from that price point, and it was USA made. I don't know how they did it, but they did. That mean's it can't be impossible.

Probably the wiped-on nitro finish over unsealed ash (I have one in natural. I am in the process of filling the grain and giving it a gloss nitro). I bet the finish is a big part of the cost of a bass.

 

[Stevorebob]

If Subaru made a work truck I'd be all over it! If it was affordable.

Like a Music Man P or J, or a Fender M, or a Gibson anything bass, there just aren’t enough consumers who would trust a Subaru-made pickup for it to be successful. It goes against the Subaru brand. They could change that, but brand repositioning is difficult and costly.

But they don't make one.... and WON'T make one. Why? Because people don't look to Subaru for huge trucks with the towing capacity of a small town.

Duncan Doughnuts is not going to start selling salads.

Look at the recent IHOB (International House Of Burgers?) debacle. What a silly think. People don't turn to IHOP for burgers in massive numbers.

Very few established companies are able to get away with getting out of their lanes.

We've seen it here with Fender over and over again. Pretty much everything they sell with strings today was conceived in the 50s or 60s or earlier. Nobody wants "something new and different" from Fender.

Again, spot on.

 

[mcnach]

Yet another fail by Ernie Ball!

What is a fail is your ridiculous comment

Again.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Don’t forget, the price increases hit the entire line up, not just the Cutlass and Caprice. I’m itching for a Bongo 5HH. On one hand, $2,399 is not a bad price for the quality and features but on the other, I’m having a hard time paying $2,399 for something that was $1,799 just about a year ago.

Now a lot has changed in that year. Cost of materials is up. Cost of labor is up. Equipment prices are up. Health insurance costs are up and regardless of what you hear on tv, there are lots of uncertainties in the global markets. So I don’t believe EBMM is trying to inflate its bottom line or margins but $2,399 puts a lot of other options on the table.

Pentax always kept the prices of their products quite reasonable compared to their competition over the years, In fact they were an amazing bargain, comparatively, as the other company's prices kept going up year after year. Then one year, I don't recall exactly when, sometime in the late '80s/early '90s their prices went up across the board. What happened was that Pentax just could not stay alive at the artificially low prices they were selling product for. Finally, in order for Pentax to stay afloat they had no choice but to, fairly dramatically, raise their prices.

 

[BigBigGuy44]

Pentax always kept the prices of their products quite reasonable compared to their competition over the years, In fact they were an amazing bargain, comparatively, as the other company's prices kept going up year after year. Then one year, I don't recall exactly when, sometime in the late '80s/early '90s their prices went up across the board. What happened was that Pentax just could not stay alive at the artificially low prices they were selling product for. Finally, in order for Pentax to stay afloat they had no choice but to, fairly dramatically, raise their prices.

My first real camera was a Pentax. Great product and brings back a fond memory!

Even after the price price hikes, I don’t believe EBMM prices are out of line. Back to my Bongo example. $2,399 for a USA 5-string bass with dual humbuckers and 4-band active EQ. Fender American Elite J bass is $2,149, Yamaha BBNE2 is $2,499, Spector Euro5 is $2,499 and German Warwicks are similarly priced. So the Bongo price isn’t even close to being out of line.

 

[RBrownBass]

I'd like a passive stingray!
...one that doesn't weigh a ton, please.

Then build one. If you want it passive, there's nothing proprietary left, and no reason to seek out EBMM.

Warmoth. If you have the talent, there'll be zero dropoff in quality. But you have to be a player and not a collector/flipper, because the masses don't know anything abut Warmoth and you'll lose your shirt trying to sell it.

 

[Rib 13]

Like a Music Man P or J, or a Fender M, or a Gibson anything bass,

I LOLd

 

[Briton]

What is a fail is your ridiculous comment

Again.

I see that the EB Army are so brainwashed that they cannot see sense. I cannot understand why EB ever brought them out as they are just a P Bass and a J Bass in disguise. If a punter wants a P Bass or a J Bass they will probably buy a Fender. You have just got to laugh at EB's Marketting tactics, which is another"FAIL" they are hilarious.

 

[RBrownBass]

Pentax always kept the prices of their products quite reasonable compared to their competition over the years, In fact they were an amazing bargain, comparatively, as the other company's prices kept going up year after year. Then one year, I don't recall exactly when, sometime in the late '80s/early '90s their prices went up across the board. What happened was that Pentax just could not stay alive at the artificially low prices they were selling product for. Finally, in order for Pentax to stay afloat they had no choice but to, fairly dramatically, raise their prices.

Oooh! Camera talk!

I bought a couple of K1000s back in the mid-80s when I first took interest in photography. Then the gearsnob bug bit and it had to be all Nikon bodies w/Nikkor lenses. Leica was more expensive, but I considered them to be the gem-encrusted watches of the camera world, while Nikon had the real-deal Sports Illustrated/Nat'l Geographic cred, a la Rolex/Omega.

Pentax probably made some money licensing their K-mount to just about every indie lensmaker out there. Chinon & Ricoh bodies took them, I know for a fact.

Anyways, I got into bass in the late 80s and sold off a lot of camera stuff. now it's all gone digital and I can't duplicate the gear I used to own without a huge bankroll. Since I can't afford to walk around looking like Walter Iooss, I'll just keep shooting with my phone and put the money into basses.

 

[bassstrangler]

I'm sure this has been said. I was all into getting one and to my complete shock I go to the Sweetwater site and the price jumped up $500 from the previous day. Same bass same serial number, $500 more that's ridiculous.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

But they don't make one.... and WON'T make one. Why? Because people don't look to Subaru for huge trucks with the towing capacity of a small town.

Duncan Doughnuts is not going to start selling salads.

Look at the recent IHOB (International House Of Burgers?) debacle. What a silly think. People don't turn to IHOP for burgers in massive numbers.

Very few established companies are able to get away with getting out of their lanes.

We've seen it here with Fender over and over again. Pretty much everything they sell with strings today was conceived in the 50s or 60s or earlier. Nobody wants "something new and different" from Fender.

While that might be true, how do you manage to survive or progress when your lane is no longer popular? How are companies supposed to innovate when they are pigeon-holed into limited products/models?