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Paul McCartney Dings His Hofner

#81
groooooove said:
the big number we often hear is joshua bell's strad. it's "value" (just an estimate) being 17 million.

not that it's particularly important, but i think certainly interesting to note is why they are so valuable.

of course, this all starts with their intrinsic value. guarneri, del gesu, stradivari and others all truly made remarkable violins. There is no argument as to the pedigree of some of these amazing instruments.

the next part of this appraisal of the antique violin market is a lot less 'sexy.' Bankers and high net worth investors are in on the bidding. Antique italian string instruments, particularly if they are certified from a particular maker such as strad, have proven themselves as worthy investments. so, imagine being a billionaire.. your stock, real estate, and precious metal (god knows what else!) investments need to be further diversified by owning a strad or two.

yo-yo ma does not own his montagnana. it's owned by a bank that loaned it to him for life.

so, this has driven a significant part of the market. now with this hugely (in my opinion) inflated price, it continues to amaze musicians who then spend their whole life and career dreaming of owning one - some of which do when given the opportunity, regardless that their $12k hand made violin actually performs better. (allegedly..;)) - this maintains that high value, that A-list violinists still play them.

I am proposing that if strads sell for multi-millions of dollars.. hypothetically, i don't see why paul's hofner wouldn't. I very well may be dead wrong on that, but i don't see how that could be looked at as a "bad" investment (again, to someone with that kind of money where they don't need any more real estate, stocks, etc.)

okay, back to the discussion on him dinging it :bassist:
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Jack Benny - Wikipedia

Jack Benny also donated a Stradivarius violin (purchased in 1957) to the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra.[36][37] Benny had quipped, "If it isn't a $30,000 Strad, I'm out $120."[38]

jack-benny-look.gif


:)
 
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#82
dkelley said:
totally.

To elaborate on your point about the "allegedly" better affordable instrument..... from my personal experience, strads are dramatically more powerful and easy to speak than any other violin I've ever played, including some other huge names.... so they earned their reputations through valid musician-performer reasons. My main classical violin is a wonderful Cremona-made violin from the same era (actually a little older than strads), and it is amazing. But, it isn't in the same league as the greats. Someone listening wouldn't know, because it's the player mostly, not the instrument, but the performer would know. My violin is amazing.... for a 5 digit price violin.

But there are some modern violin makers doing INCREDIBLE things... and one of my coaches back in the 90s played one that was astounding.
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there are so many. sam zygmuntowicz is often cited as one who can "beat strad" in blind tests. i don't like citing him because his violins cost $40k and up. probably more now. thats a LOT for a brand new fiddle.

no ill will towards sam, one of the very best to do it. but, i know the violin world can be sketchy. I know the best sounding violins i've ever heard from a modern maker come from someone who's prices are more reasonable. which ironically seems to downplay their validity to some... sad, really, how many musician's ears get overwhelmed by pedigree, mystique, history, and so on.

again... none of my points are meant to claim strads are not amazing and even somewhat deserving of their 'magical' reputation. Just, i know the best sounding violins i've ever heard in person came from a maker whos current price is $12k i think for a standard concert violin.

back to my original point... strads prices are inflated by investment banks and i suspect the same could happen to paul's hofner. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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#89
groooooove said:
there are so many. sam zygmuntowicz is often cited as one who can "beat strad" in blind tests. i don't like citing him because his violins cost $40k and up. probably more now. thats a LOT for a brand new fiddle.

no ill will towards sam, one of the very best to do it. but, i know the violin world can be sketchy. I know the best sounding violins i've ever heard from a modern maker come from someone who's prices are more reasonable. which ironically seems to downplay their validity to some... sad, really, how many musician's ears get overwhelmed by pedigree, mystique, history, and so on.

again... none of my points are meant to claim strads are not amazing and even somewhat deserving of their 'magical' reputation. Just, i know the best sounding violins i've ever heard in person came from a maker whos current price is $12k i think for a standard concert violin.

back to my original point... strads prices are inflated by investment banks and i suspect the same could happen to paul's hofner. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
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absolutely! I totally agree. I was just rehearsing tonight and the violinists on either side of me, one being the concertmaster, were playing modern instruments... the concertmaster's is 2 years old. mine has already progressed well into it's fourth century. Both of the violins on either side of mine are more powerful than mine, although I adore the tone of mine and have never been overpowered as a soloist. But there definitely are some astounding instruments being made these days. the 30ish year old modern violin on the other side of me tonight was by a maker I'm well aware of who's violins are used by major violinists across north america for solo concerto work. And his violins ARE very pricey... but as one owner I knew long ago noted...." it's a bargain compared to a strad!"
 
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#90
groooooove said:
"...sad, really, how many musician's ears get overwhelmed by pedigree, mystique, history, and so on.
...strads prices are inflated by investment banks and i suspect the same could happen to paul's hofner. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
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Höfner may have kept records of the "Cavern Höfner" which is the provenance to prove it, I'm sure there must be but what if...

You all know the story about how Bob Dylan's Newport Jazz Festival Stratocaster got left on the private jet, 40 or 50 years later this lady whose father was the pilot of that jet comes forth with this Bob Dylan guitar, and it was authenticated by a wood expert who was able to match the grain on the Rosewood fretboard to a couple of professional quality pictures that were taken from the front row at the jazz fest, but that's what it took to proof it, also she had several letters from her dad to Bob Dylan's management company which had been written wanting to know where he could send this guitar that was left on the aircraft he was piloting. Tthe letters were never answered but copies were retained and that also went into proving the provenance of the Bob Dylan guitar.

All of which is moot if that Höfner was properly authenticated/documented before it was nicked.
 
#91
One other point is that if that Höfner was nicked and macca did not receive an insurance payment for that bass, technically that bass is still his and anyone coming forth with that bass in the future will have the bass removed from their possession and returned to the family IF there was no insurance payout.
 
#93
When I saw him in 2003, he sang "Yesterday" and made a big point of saying that the acoustic guitar he was playing was the very same one he played when he premiered the song on the Ed Sullivan Show. So, at least in that case, he did bring a treasured, priceless instrument on the road. Not a replica.
 

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