And the saga continues. So I think after a long heated debate I convinced the singer not to fork over $1k to play the show. But then he says: "well I guess that just frees up money for Taxi, because that's a great investment." I've got no idea what it is but I can't imagine it being a good investment. Anybody have any feedback on Taxi? Here's the link: http://www.taxi.com/
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Pay to Play or Not?
- Thread starter Jazz Hands
- Start date
If you get involved be sure you check who actually owns your music once submitted. Always take the time to read the fine print.
Can't your singer just get you some freakin' gigs?
Every book I've ever read says that Pay-to-play is the worst possible thing you can do for your group.
Taxi is an interesting concept, but you HAVE to have your $@*# together. If you have a song that is marketable, has a great hook, strong words, etc., the Taxi can help, but it'll cost ya.
A word of advice, if something seems to good to be true, it usually is. Do your research ALWAYS before you take a venture into something like that.
And, yes, 1K can go into radio advertising, a magazine advert, press kits, books on marketing, a professional website, something!
RE: Taxi. If it were me I'd certainly never pay to have someone try to get me signed. That's what a publicist is for, not some random website that asks for $300.
There are some great companies that specialize in finding you licensing deals, but they don't charge you in advance, they take a finder's fee upon completion of the deal. Paying up front for these services always seems like a scam. My band is currently locking down a licensing deal that came about the old-fashioned way... a friend introduced someone to us, and he liked the music. Simple and clean.
There are some great companies that specialize in finding you licensing deals, but they don't charge you in advance, they take a finder's fee upon completion of the deal. Paying up front for these services always seems like a scam. My band is currently locking down a licensing deal that came about the old-fashioned way... a friend introduced someone to us, and he liked the music. Simple and clean.
+1 to the above post.
In my city there are numerous bars, clubs that will rent you their room. You are then responsible for promoting the show. You get the ticket/cover sales and the room gets the liquor sales. This almost always applies to bands playing original music. Cover bands get their agreed upon wages but also play different venues then the original bands. Lots of bands seem to do it as a way of getting their names out whether they have a demo to promote or not. I think it sucks that bands have to take on this responsibility just to have a venue to play but I understand why bar owners are not willing to pay an unknown original band to play. Why should they take the chance that the show will be a bomb? They are a business. With cover bands bar owners at least sort of know what/who they are hiring.
On a bigger scale the promoter of a big arena show pays the arena owner a rental fee. The band might not be paying to play but the promoter is paying to put on the show. It is then his responsiblity to sell tickets and promote the show. In the pay to play scenario the band becomes the promoter and reaps the rewards or suffers the losses.
So the question might be does the band of the OP have enough of a fan base to make this particular pay to play at least be a break even evening? If not then you might as well wait until you have opened for some other bands and started establishing a fan base.
For what it's worth our band recorded a 3 song CD and had it professionally packaged before we ever thought about doing a show. IMO an original band needs to have some product to give to radio stations, venues, promoters etc.
Edit: Just to clarify my band has not done this pay to play thing. We have sold tickets to our shows but have not taken on the financial responsibility of being the promoter.
Absolutely not! You are an artist, or becoming one, with a talent/skill that not everyone and their dog has.
You don't go up to an artist and say: "I'll let you hang a painting in my house if you give me $1000."
or say to a carpenter: "Design new cabinets for my kitchen. It will only cost you $1000!"
The more that people do things like this, the more booking people/club owners/contractors will have musicians doing this kind of thing. You can get local radio exposure by taking that $1000 and buying some nice gear, advertising, and getting your band out there. Radio exposure will come to you if and when you are popular enough. If you put some hard work behind it, people are going to want your services.
You don't go up to an artist and say: "I'll let you hang a painting in my house if you give me $1000."
or say to a carpenter: "Design new cabinets for my kitchen. It will only cost you $1000!"
The more that people do things like this, the more booking people/club owners/contractors will have musicians doing this kind of thing. You can get local radio exposure by taking that $1000 and buying some nice gear, advertising, and getting your band out there. Radio exposure will come to you if and when you are popular enough. If you put some hard work behind it, people are going to want your services.
Do not do it .
I can never understand this type of logic.
I was part of a band when I was young (17 years of age)
and thought play everywhere, but never pay to play.
I can never understand this type of logic.
I was part of a band when I was young (17 years of age)
and thought play everywhere, but never pay to play.
Yeah, you're right. There are different types of pay-to-play arrangements, and a situation where a band rents the room and keeps ticket sales and a percentage of the bar is a whole different animal from the typical "LA-style" pay to play. It's actually pretty fun to put together your own show; my band has done similar things with the local LA promoter "the fold", though we've never taken any financial risk as of yet.
I know here the way the bad kind of P2P usually works is that some shady promoter offers you a show at someplace like the Cat Club (horrible venue, btw) and charges you for something like 40 tickets in advance, which you're then responsible to sell unless you're willing to eat that cost. You don't get to choose who you're playing with (usually mismatched local bands who combine for a pretty lame show all around), you don't usually get a percentage of the bar, and the only way to turn a profit is to draw in a significant number of people beyond the initial pre-sell tickets. Usually you'll get a certain amount per ticket if you hit 50 people, and a higher percentage if you hit 100 or something. One so-called "promoter" offered us a show at some tourist bar at Universal Studios claiming that if we drew 200 people we could make something like $2000... of course there was a 50 ticket pre-sell and the tickets were like $15 a piece (not to mention parking which is a minimum of $10). Pretty stupid deal for most bands.
If you were established enough you actually could make money at this, but then again, if you were established enough to fill one of these clubs you'd be getting offers for better shows anyway, and opening for bigger acts with far less effort and no financial risk. The LA-style of P2P is really aimed at making money off of local bands, which is why I always respectfully decline these kinds of shows.
Don't do the Taxi thing either! That is another major scam! I know a band that tried this thing and were completely ripped off! Nothing ever happened to help promote (or even record) their stuff, and eventually they could not even get a hold of anyone at the company anymore.
If it looks too good to be true, and you've never heard of it, then it is too good to be true. If you want something done right, do it yourself!
I think you may suffer from an extremely gullible vocalist.
If it looks too good to be true, and you've never heard of it, then it is too good to be true. If you want something done right, do it yourself!
I think you may suffer from an extremely gullible vocalist.
bigfatbass
Inactive
- Jun 30, 2003
- 2,420
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- Endorsing Artist: Karl Hoyt Basses
Again, similar issues with Taxi.com. Assuming first that you are in a good band, if you don't have something recorded, no one cares unless you are one of two things, and two things only:
1. You are improbably good looking and/or improbably slutty (think Taye Diggs hot, and Lindsey Lohan slutty)
2. You are a complete bunch of freaks, and I mean FREAKY freaks (think GWAR and Joan Rivers have a 3 headed baby)
On the OT, in select cases, for bands that REALLY have it together, taxi.com MAY find them soundtrack/bed/mechanical license opportunities for their music.
In select cases, for bands who REALLY REALLY have their their **** together, these opportunities MAY actually cover the expense of signing up with taxi.com in the first place.
It is the bottom-feeding pool for failed A&R wannabes. You know, like the line of public defenders waiting for the next flat-rate case from the city to get plunked in front of them? Sure, some of those people are probably fine lawyers, but how many do you think would be there if they had the skill/opportunity to work for a reputable law firm instead, and for twice the money?
You need to get away from this singer. Unless of course they meet the criteria above for freaky slutty hotness.
1. You are improbably good looking and/or improbably slutty (think Taye Diggs hot, and Lindsey Lohan slutty)
2. You are a complete bunch of freaks, and I mean FREAKY freaks (think GWAR and Joan Rivers have a 3 headed baby)
On the OT, in select cases, for bands that REALLY have it together, taxi.com MAY find them soundtrack/bed/mechanical license opportunities for their music.
In select cases, for bands who REALLY REALLY have their their **** together, these opportunities MAY actually cover the expense of signing up with taxi.com in the first place.
It is the bottom-feeding pool for failed A&R wannabes. You know, like the line of public defenders waiting for the next flat-rate case from the city to get plunked in front of them? Sure, some of those people are probably fine lawyers, but how many do you think would be there if they had the skill/opportunity to work for a reputable law firm instead, and for twice the money?
You need to get away from this singer. Unless of course they meet the criteria above for freaky slutty hotness.
^ What he said.
That money would be well spent on a recording and merchandise, or a real, physically present manager.
That money would be well spent on a recording and merchandise, or a real, physically present manager.
Don't do it....I'm in LA, and I think we are the home of this sick practice..........We've NEVER done it. We have lots of friends who have, and absolutely NOTHING has come of it for ANY of them. Meanwhile, the Club owners grow fat. If you can't do it for money, then do it for free. And then there's the internet.
Who chooses The Whiskey over Spaceland now-a-days?I love Spaceland.
lol yeah I know. I guess im old school now heh
I love spaceland too. I haven't played there, but I've seen some great bands there.
When I played The Whiskey it wasn't a P2P
so thats a good thing. I really just wanted to be able to tell people I played on the same stage as Poison 
*kidding!*
I've seen some fairly old posts on this and thought I'd revive it.
Last night at rehearsal my singer/guitarist who basically manages our group told us he's lining up a pay-to-play show in March. To headline it will cost $1,000!The singer says he's willing to front the money (nothing required from me or the drummer). But I know he's killing his personal business to do junk like this. I'll admit the venue is good & the exposure might even land us some local radio attention.....but still I'm completely against it. In 10yrs of gigging I don't know if I've ever paid to play - and for $1k - no way. I try to explain to the singer that this is insane but he just keeps saying it's good for the band & we need the exposure. I try telling him we've only been together a few months & played only 3 gigs so far & that a demo is more important at this point. Also I'm by far the most seasoned in the band as far as the scene goes but it falls on deaf ears. Not only am I against it but then I feel like I'm in debt to the singer for dropping this much cash into something.
Any advice or experience w/ pay to play would be appreciated!
Mistake #1 - being in a band where a member of the band managers the group.
You hire a manager to handle crap like this for you.
I've heard that you have to pay to get radio play, but with new venues of distirbution out there (like the Internet), why would anyone pay $1000 to headline a show? What if the weather sucks and no one shows up? If a reviewer shows up, you'll get panned because no one else came, but the promoter has your $1000 in their pocket.
Walk, dude - leave the band. It's 2008 - a new year...start your own group where you do things the right way.
Z
