Double Bass Pedal points in jazz blues

[Dewcey]

Can you recomend a recording or theory book with blues played over pedal points? What is your experience on the use of pedal points in blues?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

You cannot use the third and the seventh from the first chord (I) of a standard blues over the whole form, because these notes change on th IV and V, but any other note works. It is just a matter of if you like that or not (and how the other players react if you do that).

If you do a more II-V-I oriented blues, find the notes that change over the part of the changes where you want to play a pedal note and do not use them as pedal notes. The notes that don't change are generally suitable for a pedal note.

You can also use a note that is not part of the scale, but this changes th scale that can be used over these changes and often clashes with the written chords, specially if you want that note over several consecutive chords and not only one. But this is very special and you can get a lot of hate from the other players if that is not communicated before and they all agree.

 

[Steve Freides]

Forgive my ignorance but I’m a church organist and, for me, a pedal tone is a pedal note, meaning it’s the bass/lowest note, that doesn’t change when the rest of the harmony does.

Are you folks using the term in some other way?

-S-

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Forgive my ignorance but I’m a church organist and, for me, a pedal tone is a pedal note, meaning it’s the bass/lowest note, that doesn’t change when the rest of the harmony does.

Are you folks using the term in some other way?

Forgive my limited knowledge of English terms, with pedal tone I meant a pedal note and it's the same as in classical music. I just assumed that the OP meant that as this is a commonly used thing in jazz too.

 

[Adam Booker]

Yep! Pedal on the tonic. All the way through. Worked great for Mingus!

 

[Tom Lane]

Hmm, I'll defer to Adam on this... I can't remember hearing a pedal point used on a 12 bar blues before, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Maybe Adam can post a link to a Mingus recording that does.

I was going to say that my understanding of a "pedal point" is a single note, typically played on the beat, by the bassist through a set of chords. It's a fairly common device in jazz, and the pitch isn't restricted to the tonic or a low register. Two examples, off the top of my head, are many recordings of Old Devil Moon where it's common to pedal the 5th for the first... 16? 8? bars? Another is Paul Chamber's recording of Someday My Prince Will Come with Miles when he pedaled a 5th of the key just below the octave for much of the form. I think he may have played it the entire in-head until the last couple of measures.

Regarding playing a pedal tone through the blues, I can't remember hearing it done, but I can imagine that you could pedal the 5th in any octave for the entire 12 bars and it wouldn't be the worst thing. I'm not sure that a 12 bar blues is the best vehicle for a pedal point though because the chords don't really change much in an average rendition and the form is so short. I'll have to give it a try and even then, you may feel differently. A more common scenario is the use a ostinato phrase on a blues waltz like All Blues or Footprints. As DoubleMIDI said, the pedal tone doesn't have to be a consonant tone but unless you're working with players who might expect it, they'll probably think you made a prolonged mistake, which could be kind of a practical joke and kind of cool if you like to stir things up.

 

[Don Kasper]

Worked great for Mingus!

Ah Um.
Is this the "...Mingus..." you're referring to, Adam?
(The "Intro" material is kind of an Ostinato riff in Bb (Tonic) leading to a conventional Bb Blues form later on.)

Or, this - @ 1:26 in the Trombone? (A true pedal tone on the (F) Tonic, but the bass/piano are making the F Blues changes during solos, as I hear it.)

Dannie Richmond sure sounds/feels great throughout. IMO.
TMI - I stumbled upon, and bought, this recording as a Dumba** Teenager. I'm glad I did.
Thanks.

 

[Tom Lane]

Ah Um.
Is this the "...Mingus..." you're referring to, Adam?
(The "Intro" material is kind of an Ostinato riff in Bb (Tonic) leading to a conventional Bb Blues form later on.)

Or, this - @ 1:26 in the Trombone? (A true pedal tone on the (F) Tonic, but the bass/piano are making the F Blues changes during solos, as I hear it.)

Dannie Richmond sure sounds/feels great throughout. IMO.
TMI - I stumbled upon, and bought, this recording as a Dumba** Teenager. I'm glad I did.
Thanks.

The Better Git It In Your Soul recording makes great use of the pedal over the blues IMO, great example Don! And reminds me that an interesting device for a soloist is to exclusively use a single pitch for their solo, using only rhythm to make a melody. If you sell it, it sounds pretty cool, used sparingly.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Yep! Pedal on the tonic. All the way through. Worked great for Mingus!

Yep. Sometimes i pedal on the root for a period of time to built tension for when i break out of it.

 

[Michael Glynn]

In a very similar vein, check out starting just before the 2 minute mark in this one:



I have a friend who advocates pedaling on IV on a blues when a horn solo has gone on too long...

 

[gerry grable]

The Better Git It In Your Soul recording makes great use of the pedal over the blues IMO, great example Don! And reminds me that an interesting device for a soloist is to exclusively use a single pitch for their solo, using only rhythm to make a melody. If you sell it, it sounds pretty cool, used sparingly.

Mingus also used an ostinato figure in Summertime with Hamp Hawes.