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Persimmon...??

LightGroove

LightGroove

Oct 24, 2006
1,997
187
Happy Bottom, VA
#1
Hey all....starting to put together thoughts and ideas for my first ever build. While it may not be 100% realistic I would love to use all my lumber from the farm I live on (300+ acres) The other day I found a 20 +/- ft tall persimmon tree that had died.. I did find a few old rusty nails and a piece of some barbed wire that I think got it.. Any way Ive read a few discussions that this can be compared to ebony in several ways..sometimes referred to as white ebony. Do any of you have general thoughts on cutting it up and drying it out...Also this is very dense so Im assuming maybe only used as a fretboard... would love thoughts and input... Also have some black walnut and eastern red cedar Im looking forward to using
 
#2
Hi.

LightGroove said:
I did find a few old rusty nails and a piece of some barbed wire that I think got it..
Click to expand...

Just make sure that when You cut the log to lumber, you don't catch ANY of that metal, possibly hidden deep in the wood.

If You take it to someone to be cut, and they ruin their blade, it'll be You who pays for the repair/resharpening.

I'm not familiar with Persimon at all but generally, naturally died trees may make stunning tops but their structural integrity is often compromised.

Regards
Sam
 
#3
For quality lumber you want to be 20 years from cut to reach stability. Kiln dried lumber is mostly good enough to use; especially for your first build. If you air dry the lumber it will be about 7 years before it is stable enough for a first build.

The species itself is a fantastic one, but crapily dried lumber is crap.
 
#4
I have used persimmon for fingerboards. It is not quite as hard and dense as african ebony, but it is very durable. It was used for golf club heads before they started doing the "wood" clubs out of metals.

It's doable but it can be hard to get a quality piece of lumber. Orchard trees tend not to grow straight. As others have said, dead trees tend to rot and it is important that persimmon be dried properly, also be very careful of nails and embedded metals.

All that said, if you can find a piece wide enough to make a top, or if you can find a straight, well behaved section and quarter it, persimmon is a nice if sometimes homely wood with excellent physical properties (for a domestic US wood).

I know these guys have milled persimmon. They might have some insights for you:
Link Removed
 
#6
I have done two, one more in progress, that are all domestic woods with persimmon fingerboards. Persimmon is green-grey to cream colored and not a show-stopper. You might find some nice character wood if you open up a wider piece of it and are not constrained to straight, quartersawn pieces.

Fingerboard choices are slim for all-domestic basses. I like to stay north of 1400-1500 on the Janka scale. Persimmon is well above at ~ 2300. I have done pecan (1800) and maple (mid 1400's) also, pecan is rather nice but coarse.
 

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#7
FBB Custom said:
I have done two, one more in progress, that are all domestic woods with persimmon fingerboards. Persimmon is green-grey to cream colored and not a show-stopper. You might find some nice character wood if you open up a wider piece of it and are not constrained to straight, quartersawn pieces.

Fingerboard choices are slim for all-domestic basses. I like to stay north of 1400-1500 on the Janka scale. Persimmon is well above at ~ 2300. I have done pecan (1800) and maple (mid 1400's) also, pecan is rather nice but coarse.
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I have never been a singlecut fan, but I like the look of that FB, it's mid-colored enough to work well with both dark or light colored tops.

+10 to FBB for "All Domestic" approach to some instruments. This is something I think some of us try to do, but most often cannot. It is good for pride and domestic economy, and I applaud this choice.:hyper:
 
#9
Musiclogic said:
"All Domestic" approach to some instruments. This is something I think some of us try to do, but most often cannot. It is good for pride and domestic economy, and I applaud this choice.:hyper:
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Much appreciated! Most often I cannot myself. The palette is limited compared to what you get with the exotics. About 5% of my instruments have been all domestic; it helps to have a customer who is fired up about domestic woods.

It also helps to have a source for persimmon, which is not that easy to find. OP should definitely pursue that log!

Musiclogic, perhaps "all domestic" would be a good theme for the next "competition" here on the LC. What do you think?
 
#11
FBB Custom said:
I have done two, one more in progress, that are all domestic woods with persimmon fingerboards. Persimmon is green-grey to cream colored and not a show-stopper.
Click to expand...

Thank you for describing the color of Persimmon wood. For some reason, I was thinking of Osage Orange when I previously mentioned that Persimmon wood was yellow. Whoops!

FBB Custom said:
Fingerboard choices are slim for all-domestic basses. I like to stay north of 1400-1500 on the Janka scale. Persimmon is well above at ~ 2300. I have done pecan (1800) and maple (mid 1400's) also, pecan is rather nice but coarse.
Click to expand...

The thought of using Pecan as a fingerboard wood sounds very interesting! (LightGroove, please forgive me if I am veering too far off of the Persimmon fingerboard path. I do not want to detract from your original intentions for starting your thread.)

If you would be so kind, what are the specs of the bass in the picture you provided? It looks fantastic!
 
#12
All domestic would be great, we were talking EUB, but I really like the all domestic idea. I'll start poking around with some of the guys see what we can come up with. Depends on who's game. Let me know if you have time FBB, a lot of these guys could learn a bunch from you. That is my angle with the showcase builds, to help the guys and gals here to see examples of how to approach building, information.
 
#14
Ill get a shot of it tom. afternoon...def. kind of wild looking up top but some straight portions toward the bottom. The base looks king of cool but not sure about the "checks' or whatever you call that small crack you use to typically split wood...this looks a little on the larger side...the tree is not rotten...does have some minor darker strands toward the core as well.
 
#15
Domestic wood fingerboards are a topic that really interests me. I have been holding on to some Mesquite for a few years waiting to be damn sure it is done what moving it will do so I can try to use it. I would like to learn more about more domestic wood options.
 
#16
tjclem said:
Domestic wood fingerboards are a topic that really interests me. I have been holding on to some Mesquite for a few years waiting to be damn sure it is done what moving it will do so I can try to use it. I would like to learn more about more domestic wood options.
Click to expand...

That's really cool Tom...I would love to see what you produce with some of that Mesquite.
 
#17
I have an all-domestic 6 string with a square body blank and a neck that is rough tapered. I'd be willing to document that here but obviously it's started so some of the initial steps would be conspicuously absent. This one has a persimmon fingerboard.

I've also got an all-maple 4 string that I have started and was planning on doing a build thread for. It's part of a 3 bass set. So, I could do either or both.

As for mesquite, I have not had occasion to use it. Prosopis is plenty hard but as you know it's a gnarly tree and the stuff I have seen has been low-quality. Once it settles down you'll have to let us know.

Perhaps we can move this conversation of domestics to its own thread if the all-domestic challenge gets any traction.

Suffice it to say, to the OP, we are all curious to see what the inside of your log looks like. Persimmon is certainly suitable for guitarmaking but do be careful to saw, select, and dry your boards carefully.
 
#19
Took some shots today...I cut a few of the upper limbs and did find some rot but as far as the base it seems real solid. The tree is 13" in diameter and around 14-15ft tall including branches. It does look like it has a natural twist going on... One thing I noticed is the tree is not a perfect circle at the bottom...its about 3/4 all the way around then kind of cat faces or curls in..I have shots to better explain.
 
#20
I too would love the increase the domestic talk...so far on the farm Ive located Dogwood, Sycamore, 3 or 4 different oaks.,.,3 or 4 different maples...poplar, black walnut, cherry (wild is what the guy told me) eastern cedar, Persimmon and black locust... Ive seen a few others but havnt identified yet..Im told there is Ash n this area but is rarely seen due to a blights years ago
 

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