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Pet Peeve: Bands hinding behind music stands

#121
steveksux said:
Well, probably not, but you know I've heard that all opinions have merit... :D

Randy
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Clearly the only opinions that matter are those of the working pros, so the rest of us should just shut up now.

Yeah, I guess us little guys should just leave the forum to you pros because we're just as*h***s who don't know crap. Our opinions don't have any merit, yeah, I get it.

Maybe you could get a "pros only" section of the forum so you don't have to be bothered with the opinions of those who don't make their living from playing music.
 
#122
zenrad said:
I saw a band once where the lead singer was sitting on a stool in front of a music stand. They were playing classic rock tunes, seems everyone in the audience knew the words except the singer. All of them had stands. There was zero energy in their set and it was fairly painful to watch. Looked like the singer was too tired to stand and everyone else just didn't know the songs.

Personally, I would rather see people forget the words to songs and wing it through little mistakes rather than read rock tune changes from sheet music.
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Bassdirty said:
Perfect point.

The thread cld end after this.
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Some of the negative comments of the seem to follow the thought process of "they've got music stands and are reading charts/tabs/lyrics and their performance was poor therefore the stands are to blame."

The presence of music stands on the stage do not cause a band to be poor performers. If their performance is poor it could be because they aren't very good musicians, especially if they can't play well even having song references in front of them. Or it's lack of preparedness, they should've spent more time rehearsing the tunes to be able to play them with the charts before performing publicly.

Some of the issues being described this thread are not even present with good musicians and performers who are competent readers and use charts/stands on stage. The stands become invisible because the performer is skilled at reading, following cues, engaging the audience and maintaining a positive stage presence.

If those things are missing, it's the performer's inadequacies showing through, not the music stand's.

BTW, I agree that at a typical rock band bar gig that music stands should be unnecessary. But if anything we should not have a problem with the music stands, we should have a problem with all these crappy bands getting gigs that should be going to better musicians. ;)

I'll also reiterate what Jimmy M and others alluded to, that there is a whole world of professional music that requires reading (and music stands) on stage, in many musical genres. I have yet to see a music stand impede a professional's performance.
 
#124
zenrad said:
Clearly the only opinions that matter are those of the working pros, so the rest of us should just shut up now.
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never said that.

Yeah, I guess us little guys should just leave the forum to you pros because we're just as*h***s who don't know crap. Our opinions don't have any merit, yeah, I get it.
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No, actually, you don't get it.
Maybe you could get a "pros only" section of the forum so you don't have to be bothered with the opinions of those who don't make their living from playing music.
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Wrong opinions don't bother me at all. People have the right to be wrong. They don't have the right to be immune from criticism of their beliefs. I chose to learn from people who have more experience than I did. Yet keep an eye out for "old wives tales" and popularly believed falsehoods.

That's how you weed out incorrect opinions that come from working pros. Cause all opinions don't have merit. Even from working pros sometimes.

Again, all opinions do not have merit. The opinions of the people who committed suicide hoping to hitch a ride on the Hale-bopp comet to get to Heaven... do not have merit. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. They are not entitled to have everyone else pretend it makes sense.

Randy
 
#127
:cool:

Bugs the s**t out of me. (for a bar band)
I played with a band that both singers, had a stand with lights.
They never interact with crowd, no connection.
Plus stands, lights, music, took up extra stage space.
Leaving Oh, bassplayer with little or no space.
If you can't learn your part, don't play out.:spit:
 
#128
Mojo-Man said:
:cool:

Bugs the s**t out of me. (for a bar band)
I played with a band that both singers, had a stand with lights.
They never interact with crowd, no connection.
Plus stands, lights, music, took up extra stage space.
Leaving Oh, bassplayer with little or no space.
If you can't learn your part, don't play out.:spit:
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under normal circumstances, i'd agree with you to an extent. but again, there are times when i have to use them. i'll be having to use them this weekend, as a matter of fact. nobody really cares, though. the only ones who really care are musicians, and you know, i just don't care what other musicians think about it.

:bassist:
 
#131
KillerQuebec said:
Exactly,

My question is "if you're such a big shot, what are you doing here watching me?, Why aren't you out gigging yourself?"

Is that too harsh?
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I guess this question is directed toward me since I started the thread. I am watching you because I am a musician that likes to support the local music scene. Music is an important part of my life so when my band is not gigging, I'm out doing research checking out the other local bands. Sometimes I learn new songs and riffs by watching other bass players like you which is harder to do if your hiding behind a music stand and just now learning the song on stage off a tab sheet. By watching other bands, I learn what works and what doesn't. Occasionally I hear a song that may be a good candidate for my band to cover. Sometimes I'll hear a great song and go learn it just for the hell of it. But mostly however I want your band to entertain me, show a little passion and not take the audience for granted.

PS: One of the local club owners we regularly gig at also has a pet peeve about music stands. Says he paying good $$ for a tight performance and doesn't like seeing band members learning songs and practicing on his dime.
 
#132
well, let me ask you this. If someone you admire came up to you and said, "I got a gig in an hour, here's the sheets for the songs," and it pays good. Would you decline the offer because you may have to glance down at a chart once in a while on the song?

And again I would ask you if you are doing any of the singing? It makes a huge difference.

My drummer complains about the guitar players lyric sheets all the time, but he doesn't sing a note.

And yes I do use them to learn songs. But here's the catch. I play them very good, and no one ever complains about how it sounds. And if it's something brand new, I will keep my head buried in the chart for the entire song. But again, it will sound perfect.

The band I am in now, I never use a stand anymore, but our set list is pretty static and we only add one or two songs a month so I don't need the stand anymore. I only sing two songs and for the "new" one I keep the lyrics stapled to the back of the PA spkr.

But when I played in a cabaret act that was adding new songs every week and would call out stuff we hadn't play'd in years. You bet your ass I had a stand, and a big chart book.

I think it is entirely dependent on what kind of act you have. I can agree that a band that does a 1 hour set and has been together for a long time, has no business with stands on stage.

But it would be almost irresponsible for a good cover band not to have a cheat book and a stand to put it on in case a song comes up that someone is unfamiliar with.

Are you gonna turn down a nice tip because you can't remember the words to a popular, easy to play song, because of pride?

Until you are willing to sing lead and memorize all the lyrics, & never plan on playing an unfamiliar song, you really shouldn't be complaining about stands.

I think a good honest comparison is these "tonight show" bands. They are all great players, and they do a fantastic job on the songs. But because they change it up every night, they use stands and charts. No one complains about them staring down at charts.

I think people who complain about how other musicians present themselves should spend a little more time out playing and a little less time out hatin'. I'm a working musician, and I like to support other players, but quite honestly, I never have time to really see anyone.

People who complain about music stands, probably will also complain about the band without music stands playing the exact same songs night after night after night. some people you just can't please, no matter what you do.

If you see a national act in Pittsburgh, do you bitch that they played the same songs, in the same order and made the same stupid on stage jokes in Cleveland, Akron, Indianapolis, etc.????
 
#135
They have their place, but it is certainly not in a bar band, there they are one of my pet hates.

In my regular band the guitarist does most of the singing and may have a crib sheet, on his monitor, for some new numbers but very soon gets rid of them. The ones I sing I make a point of learning the words before the gig.

I also play in an occasional bar band, there are usually 5 of us and I am the only one without a stand. It drives me insane, you cannot move on the very small stage for them. They never take their eyes off them. Luckily it is only once a year.
 
#138
I see a strong parallel between musical performance and acting. Who would accept a play or film where the "actors" just stand there, reading from scripts? However, it's perfectly OK in certain genres of the speaking arts such as making a speech, giving a lecture, etc. for the speaker to "read". In the same way, certain musical performances are characterized as "recitals", where it's accepted that the musicians & singers to read as well.

Some genres of musical performance are more-or-less expected to be more like acting than public speaking. The performers are expected to assume roles, emote, and "act out", not just stand there & read what was written. Like good acting, good musical performance involves gestures, expressions, & action in addition to just playing the music, and it needs to be convincing. The difference between "owning" a song and just playing the notes is like the difference between acting and public speaking. A musician can get away with charts on a stand just like a public speaker can get away with notes on a lectern, and nobody complains if it's expected for them to "recite". But if an actor (or a musician or singer) is expected to assume the role and "be the character" in the sense that it's more than just reading lines, then memorizing the audible portion of their performance is just a small part of their craft. In fact, above a certain level it really ceases to be "memorization" at all in music as well as acting.
 
#139
mboogiemanusa said:
You seem to care enough to read 104 prior comments and then post your own comment.
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You think I actually read 104 posts? Not a chance. I read the original and replied. The second post was only because I read a post on the same page that my post appeared. Let me repeat, I don't care whether someone uses a stand or not, and don't care if they care that I sometimes do. I think it's stupid to be dogmatic about such things.
 
#140
So I'm taking a short break to shovel down a sandwich and keep plugging away at learning 35 relatively complex tunes for a gig tomorrow ... I have about 7 hours to be prepared. I basically will have time to listen to each tune twice. I can chart very quickly so I'll grab that on pass one, then run the show on pass two. It's not a gig where stands are the norm, but I'll have it handy and as low profile as possible-- I'll be reading as I can't remember 35 tunes in this short time. I'll also need to perform to some degree as it's part of the band's vibe ... the bandleader is totally cool as I'm saving his ass and he wants the music to be right.

What's worse, screwing up the music or playing well because I know what the next chord is and keeping the dance floor grooving?

Should I turn down a very well paying gig, or the bandleader break a contract because I have to use a stand?

Does the audience really give a F?
 

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