Peterson Tuner - Setup with Bass Sweetened Tuning?

[trout fishing]

I have one of the Peterson tuners with the sweetened tunings--the mode that slightly alters the tuning of each strings by a few cents so that it's "more accurate." I always set it on the bass sweetened option, because, I don't know. Marketing tells me it's more accurate.

When I setup my basses, I change it to the regular mode, but I recently set up one of my basses and realized afterwards that it was still on the bass sweetened tuning.

It made me wonder, should I set it up again with the regular mode? Mores so when it comes to intonation?

 

[UntitledProject]

It doesn't matter. If your setup was changing (for example, your tuning was so drastically different it caused a change in neck relief) it would make a difference. But a few cents isn't doing that. So the intonation isn't changing even though your tuning is slightly different. Same strings, same action, same relief equals same intonation.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I have one of the Peterson tuners with the sweetened tunings--the mode that slightly alters the tuning of each strings by a few cents so that it's "more accurate." I always set it on the bass sweetened option, because, I don't know. Marketing tells me it's more accurate.

When I setup my basses, I change it to the regular mode, but I recently set up one of my basses and realized afterwards that it was still on the bass sweetened tuning.

It made me wonder, should I set it up again with the regular mode? Mores so when it comes to intonation?

Which Peterson tuner? I want to look-up the manual. IIRC, the "sweetened" mode has just enough of an offset that it "plays nicely" when juxtaposed with a piano. I would intonate in standard mode. Buzz Feiten is a whole 'nother story!

I have two Petersons and have never used this feature. Per our friend and fellow TBer walterw, there is a similar application for guitars. It sounds great in some chord positions but really lousy in others.

Riis

 

[Anewt]

"More accurate" to what? The frets don't move, so it's just tuning a given string flat or sharp (depending on what the "sweetening" consists of) of 440.

 

[DWA2469]

I have the Strobostomp HD! I can't tell a difference if it is on guitar or bass it seems to sound the same to me!

 

[trout fishing]

It doesn't matter. If your setup was changing (for example, your tuning was so drastically different it caused a change in neck relief) it would make a difference. But a few cents isn't doing that. So the intonation isn't changing even though your tuning is slightly different. Same strings, same action, same relief equals same intonation.

I was changing strings. I didn't change the neck relief as it was fine, but I had to redo the intonation and action.

Which Peterson tuner? I want to look-up the manual. IIRC, the "sweetened" mode has just enough of an offset that it "plays nicely" when juxtaposed with a piano. I would intonate in standard mode. Buzz Feiten is a whole 'nother story!

I have two Petersons and have never used this feature. Per our friend and fellow TBer walterw, there is a similar application for guitars. It sounds great in some chord positions but really lousy in others.

Riis

PetersonStomp Mini: StroboStomp Mini | Peterson Strobe Tuners

I just saw that there's two... I should just return to regular mode.

bAS: Designed for use with basses tuned to standard EADG and BEADG.
BSn :Guided Tuning for Bass

"More accurate" to what? The frets don't move, so it's just tuning a given string flat or sharp (depending on what the "sweetening" consists of) of 440.

... good question. I guess it doesn't matter since I don't play chords.

I have the Strobostomp HD! I can't tell a difference if it is on guitar or bass it seems to sound the same to me!

I can't tell either. From what I understand, it's just a few cents. Say the E is -2 cents while the A is +3. I guess it makes a (slight) difference when playing chords on guitar, but as @Anewt said... I guess it doesn't matter for bass?

 

[UntitledProject]

I was changing strings. I didn't change the neck relief as it was fine, but I had to redo the intonation and action.


PetersonStomp Mini: StroboStomp Mini | Peterson Strobe Tuners

I just saw that there's two... I should just return to regular mode.

bAS: Designed for use with basses tuned to standard EADG and BEADG.
BSn :Guided Tuning for Bass


... good question. I guess it doesn't matter since I don't play chords.


I can't tell either. From what I understand, it's just a few cents. Say the E is -2 cents while the A is +3. I guess it makes a (slight) difference when playing chords on guitar, but as @Anewt said... I guess it doesn't matter for bass?

My point was, you aren't changing strings when you go from sweetened tuning to standard tuning so your intonation will not change. All you need do is switch to standard tuning, retune and check the intonation to know. If you're intonated one way you will be intonated the other as nothing in your setup has changed enough to make a difference.

 

[gln1955]

So, the Ds at the 10th fret on the E string, 5th fret on the A string and open D string would all be tuned differently? Explain why I would want that.

 

[trout fishing]

@gln1955

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the purpose is to fix the same issue as temperament frets.

Unlike a piano, the distance between two notes on a fretted instrument isn't perfect because the frets are straight.

The sweetened tunings are trying to fix (in a half-assed way) this by tuning, say, your E in a certain way and the A in another so that when you play say a G major interval, it's better.

But as others have pointed, it's not really all that useful on bass (unless you accompany piano, to some degree) and on guitar (and bass), it needs to prioritize some positions over others. So while your G major chord might be more accurate at the 3rd position of the E string, it might be worse at the 5th position of the D string.

Also, it can't fix the issue on the same string.

I guess I never really thought about it too much. It's not very useful…

 

[DWA2469]

@gln1955

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the purpose is to fix the same issue as temperament frets.

Unlike a piano, the distance between two notes on a fretted instrument isn't perfect because the frets are straight.

The sweetened tunings are trying to fix (in a half-assed way) this by tuning, say, your E in a certain way and the A in another so that when you play say a G major interval, it's better.

But as others have pointed, it's not really all that useful on bass (unless you accompany piano, to some degree) and on guitar (and bass), it needs to prioritize some positions over others. So while your G major chord might be more accurate at the 3rd position of the E string, it might be worse at the 5th position of the D string.

Also, it can't fix the issue on the same string.

I guess I never really thought about it too much. It's not very useful…

They have a lot of sweeteners preprogramed but you can make and save your own. I could see someone that uses a lot of odd open tunings it could be a useful tool

 

[pbass2]

I recently got a Strobostomp HD, and also a new MTD bass with the Buzz Feiten system. Per MTD I used the sweetened setting for MTD basses when I put on my preferred strings and did my set up, then just use Equal for regular tuning. All new stuff to me for sure. I expect I could have just set it up w the standard Equal setting and been fine - obviously not everyone who has an MTD bass has a tuner with that feature (and I figure there's plenty of pro setup guys who don't either). But I guess I'm super-extra intonated now.
I will say, recording with this bass, it does sound really "in tune" as I play all across the full range of it when playing with keyboards. Maybe it's just my imagination.

 

[DJmtd]

Feels like there's a lot of confusion in this thread. All the sweetened tunings do is compensate a little bit for the nature of straight frets. Pretty much every note we play on a fret (besides the 12th, if you're intonated correctly) is a little out of tune. Guitarists for years have compensated for this in the studio and on stage by using 'sweetened' tunings - they will raise or lower the pitch of their open strings' tunings so specific chords or keys will be more in tune than they would be otherwise. This doesn't change the tuning of the same note fretted on different strings, in fact it's the exact opposite - it's trying to get them closer.

The idea is you'll get an open string that's imperceptibly out of tune but the other frets will be more in tune than they were previously.

I hadn't considered using the sweetened tunings when you intonate a bass and what the result would be. I'm sure the Peterson people have some thoughts about it. Hit em up!

Like @pbass2 noted, we use the BFTS which means I get asked about this all the time. The Buzz Feiten Tuning System is itself compensated for better tuning across the board. For bass, you can just use a standard tuner/non-sweetened tuning for your day to day. When you're correcting your intonation, though, you need to use either the bFb (Buzz Feiten Bass) or MTb (Mike Tobias Bass) mode on a Peterson or Korg tuner to get your instrument to intonate properly. I'm reasonably sure they're the same, but they're both in there.

I use the sweetened bass tuning for my non BFTS basses and I use the MTb one on my MTDs for the novelty of it. Does either one make an earth shattering difference in the context of my loud-as-hell bands? I don't think so.

If you want to make yourself even more crazy about tuning, dive into True Temperament frets!



Personally, I like everything being a little out of tune!

 

[trout fishing]

Feels like there's a lot of confusion in this thread. All the sweetened tunings do is compensate a little bit for the nature of straight frets. Pretty much every note we play on a fret (besides the 12th, if you're intonated correctly) is a little out of tune. Guitarists for years have compensated for this in the studio and on stage by using 'sweetened' tunings - they will raise or lower the pitch of their open strings' tunings so specific chords or keys will be more in tune than they would be otherwise. This doesn't change the tuning of the same note fretted on different strings, in fact it's the exact opposite - it's trying to get them closer.

The idea is you'll get an open string that's imperceptibly out of tune but the other frets will be more in tune than they were previously.

I hadn't considered using the sweetened tunings when you intonate a bass and what the result would be. I'm sure the Peterson people have some thoughts about it. Hit em up!

Like @pbass2 noted, we use the BFTS which means I get asked about this all the time. The Buzz Feiten Tuning System is itself compensated for better tuning across the board. For bass, you can just use a standard tuner/non-sweetened tuning for your day to day. When you're correcting your intonation, though, you need to use either the bFb (Buzz Feiten Bass) or MTb (Mike Tobias Bass) mode on a Peterson or Korg tuner to get your instrument to intonate properly. I'm reasonably sure they're the same, but they're both in there.

I use the sweetened bass tuning for my non BFTS basses and I use the MTb one on my MTDs for the novelty of it. Does either one make an earth shattering difference in the context of my loud-as-hell bands? I don't think so.

If you want to make yourself even more crazy about tuning, dive into True Temperament frets!



Personally, I like everything being a little out of tune!

Thanks! I'll send Peterson an email just because I'm curious. I'll keep you all updated.

So if the person who works for MTD says they use the sweetened tuning, I should use it too? Is that how things work?

 

[fu22ba55]

It's not "more accurate." It's a compensated tuning. So, technically LESS accurate, but more pleasing to the ears.

Super-helpful on steel guitar (with 10+ strings).

Not so helpful on bass guitar.

 

[JamesGrant]

Used to know a guitar player who always tuned his top E slightly sharp. Always sounded… slightly sharp and out of tune to me…

 

[lethargytartare]

I have one of the Peterson tuners with the sweetened tunings--the mode that slightly alters the tuning of each strings by a few cents so that it's "more accurate." ...

Can you tell a difference?

 

[CryingBass]

Not smart on the tuna'ing, but I have dug Buzz's solos for many years.

 

[Brandon Shea]

It's not "more accurate." It's a compensated tuning. So, technically LESS accurate, but more pleasing to the ears.

Super-helpful on steel guitar (with 10+ strings).

Not so helpful on bass guitar.

That's been my understanding as well. I tried using the sweetened tunings during a setup once, and it ended up being a mistake. Really bugged me because the strings all seemed like they were slightly off from each other in different ways. Octaves sounded awful.

My sense is that even if you intend to use a sweetened tuning, you'll probably want to do the setup without it so everything is as accurate as possible.

 

[UntitledProject]

That's been my understanding as well. I tried using the sweetened tunings during a setup once, and it ended up being a mistake. Really bugged me because the strings all seemed like they were slightly off from each other in different ways. Octaves sounded awful.

My sense is that even if you intend to use a sweetened tuning, you'll probably want to do the setup without it so everything is as accurate as possible.

What made the midpoint of your string change between standard tuning and sweetened tuning?

 

[trout fishing]

Response from Peterson:

In truth, as long as you used bAS throughout the process and compared open string to string fretted at the 12th fret, you should be OK.
The reason being that the mid-point of the string is always the mid-point of the string regardless of offset.
If you used a different method, let's say a 5th fret to 17th fret comparison, I would be more inclined to say you should do it over using EQU.