Phil Jones Bass... really that good?

[mark roberts]

Phil Jones is a genius. He makes remarkable bass cabs using small speakers and making big sound.

I owned a couple of his 8x5’s. Crystal clear and some decent lows. However, I am primarily a plectrum (pick, main and two A-Laska finger picks) extended range bass player for that stereo ERB system).

After much auditioning, those cabs would be killer for finger and slap players in smaller venues without FOH support. A little too thin for plectrum as full range...BUT...extraordinary for mid bass and highs.

Top quality cabs. I have wondered how a couple of his 4x7’s would compare to my re-furbed, super-up SWR Henry 8x8.

 

[DJ Bebop]

 

[moon-bass]

The Double four is the best small amount there. I take my all over the place.

 

[LowWay]

Some very cool stacks.

What didn't you like about the PJB's sound? Not enough low end?

It just didn’t have the ability to make me feel the bass punching me in the chest like the Bergantino’s. The pride themselves on how transparent the PJB gear is, and to me, it wasn’t what I wanted. The Bergantino cabs sounded like magic. I bought $17k in gear this summer to audition and kep the best of it. To me that ended up with Bergantino.

The PJB had adequate low end. They just didn’t sound huge. The Bergantino rig sounds huge even at bedroom volumes.

 

[CryingBass]

Super Flightcase owner here. For its size, and its features, and of course its sound, I think it is excellent.

When folks hear me play through it ( pretty rare these days, I admit! ), they can't believe that much good sound is coming out of that slightly-bigger-than-2-hat-boxes thing.

Too "transparent" for some? I have a 2X Berg NV115 stack for that. And use the SFC more at home.

Guys on TB endlessly ask about a great practice amp with option to do small gigs. PJB SFC can do both. Just be brave about how it makes you sound ( hint: real )

2 up-firing speakers for self-monitoring? Brilliant. And I believe the room reflection complements the overall sound delivery system.

And who doesn't like a bass maker named after a sandwich! ( oops )

 

[FugaziBomb]

Most speakers need 10" to get real bass

LOL!

 

[Frank77]

I guess I'll be one of the dissenting voices.

I owned (and gigged with for about 5 years) a Suitcase with a 4B extension cab (that's 8 x 5'' drivers in total) and it left me very underwhelmed. In theory the Suitcase with the extra cab delivered 350W at 4 ohms.

It sounded good, but it severely lacked in volume and low end.

With my funk band (vocals, guitar, bass, drums, keys, sax, trumpet and trombone), it was just enough to get by as a stage monitor, with the master volume almost all the way up. With a rock cover band (vocals, one or two guitars depending on the song, bass, drums), the volume would have to be completely dimed and it would still be a struggle to hear myself. Neither of these bands were insanely loud, but I'd always get drowned.

I sold it and changed for a class D head (Quilter Bass Block) with a single 8 ohm 1x12'' cab (AudioKinesis Changeling) and that setup is insanely louder than the PJB kit I had, and much lighter (more drivers = more weight). It also sounds just as good, if not better IMO (even for upright). The head I picked is quite "transparent" too, and it was much more affordable than PJB gear. Another thing I found out the hard way: Niche product = low demand = poor resale value.

I do think PJB's designs are elegant, craftmanship is top notch and that it sounds very good, but (again, IMO) it is poor value for the money. If you are an upright bassist always playing in a quiet trio or quartet, this could be great. When I initially bought it I mostly had upright in mind, and it did great with an acoustic piano and brushed drums but eventually my needs changed. If your main thing is rock or "guitar centric" music in general with a full drum kit, I'd stay away.

Just my 0.02$

 

[CryingBass]

Small Gigs is a vague term, and I used it. A small Jazz trio in a 30-person room? Small.
A 100-person bar gig is "small" relative to many rooms, but likely too big for the smaller PJB kits.

But hey - for an excellent bedroom/front room/don't-blow-out-our-ears guys small-studio practice amp?
And those loveable 30-person intimate gigs? Doable.

Peace. ( and here's to gigs roaring back! )

 

[jaroh24]

Super Flightcase owner here. For its size, and its features, and of course its sound, I think it is excellent.

When folks hear me play through it ( pretty rare these days, I admit! ), they can't believe that much good sound is coming out of that slightly-bigger-than-2-hat-boxes thing.

Too "transparent" for some? I have a 2X Berg NV115 stack for that. And use the SFC more at home.

Guys on TB endlessly ask about a great practice amp with option to do small gigs. PJB SFC can do both. Just be brave about how it makes you sound ( hint: real )

2 up-firing speakers for self-monitoring? Brilliant. And I believe the room reflection complements the overall sound delivery system.

And who doesn't like a bass maker named after a sandwich! ( oops )

How does the tone compare to the Bergantino sound? Or any other comparisons to more modern "transparent" type sounds? I'm very interested in picking up a SFC as a practice amp that can handle small venues or monitor use to supplement with a PA. My MAS 112 is sometimes too much to haul.

 

[CryingBass]

The only Berg sound I know is the NV115 sealed 15” with 6” midrange.
I am not a tweeter guy, and play more jazz/funk than rock/metal.

Many others on TB will have a better pro experience to relate, which I do not. Listen to them.

But I have some nice basses, including a CR5M upright EUB. I have played them thru the NV115s ( using a Mesa 8:88, yes, I am crazy ) and thru the PJB Super Flightcase.

If I gig again, it would be with 1 or 2 of the Bergs. But in any smaller venue, the clean exacting sound of the PJ leaves me wanting for nothing, even on the open B. And way lighter. The house board if needed might take you the rest of the way. At home? 90% PJB

For practice and a little more? Get some more opinions and consider it. Not for loud, but for the sound. And get the Red tolex. Chicks dig it.

YMMV.

 

[Jackcrow]

I still think that the Compact 8 (8 5” drivers) that I had was the best sounding cab that I’ve ever owned. I used it with a Mesa D800. As I’ve heard some people say about the compact 8, it likes a lot of power. The one I had was 4 ohm so it was getting 800 watts from the Mesa.

As far as the low end, I never found it lacking at all. Actually I found that the Phil Jones had more low end than my Ampeg 8x10 (at similar volumes and amp settings). It also got loud without farting out. I could keep up with a loud drummer no problem.

In the end, I sold it because I felt like when I used it live, I was pushing it to its limits for volume (we play loud) and I was taking my 810 out more. Sound quality wise, I thought the compact 8 was excellent, but it has its limits for volume (if you play really loud).

 

[XJ_Wheeler]

What was said above. I dig my C8 lite / 4ohm. Using a Mesa D800 as well. Works for most situations with an 80’s new wavey cover outfit and surfy-doomy-garage trio (D std).
Telescoping handle, 37 Lbs and wheels make it way easier to transport than my Mesa and Ampeg 2/12s, 1/15s and 4/10s.

 

[mikewalker]

I have 1 inch drivers in my headphones, and they sound pretty bassy. Ditto for the teeny tiny woofers inside my in-ears. So I don't think driver diameter means that much... probably it's more about getting sufficient power handling, cone excursion, and of course 'enough combined cone area' to make them behave as "loud"-speakers

 

[Dr Zee]

Several of the local standup players around here use various PJB combos and I think that's what they were designed for. Solid highly nuanced transparent tone.

 

[LHbassist]

I've played through just about everything at one time or another..as I'm pushin' 70 now, I haven't played through some of the newer 'boutique' (next big thing) gear yet. I have played through a PJB rig at a jam. A VERY expensive setup- not sure of the combo- but it had say, 350 watts or so, maybe the 6 driver one- and an extension cab under it. About 3.5k worth of bass amp. The house bassist using it- uses a Lakland Skyline Daryl Jones 5, with Joe Barden pickups in it. Excellent sounding bass, and a very capable player. I heard the bass clearly in the room, nice tone overall, but the balls you would get from larger drivers in standard front ported cabs , just didn't seem to be there. When I sat in, I felt like I was pissin' against the tide. The owner sold it, I think, 'cause I never saw him using it again. My Shuttle 9.0 and any two 1-12 neo cabs I have would crush it. Total weight for that rig- 70 75 pounds. And 1k used for all the pieces. Even using just one of my Carvin BRX 10.2 neo cabs would.

 

[glocke1]

So, PJB seems to get a lot of love around here, and I'm kind of wondering about that. They're expensive, and the thing that seems so odd to me is the driver sizes all seem too small. Many of the drivers are only 5", and the "big" drivers are only 7". Most speakers need 10" to get real bass, and I generally prefer the sound of 12" drivers over 10".

So how does PJB do it? Do they just not produce much fundamental, like it's been through an HPF? Or does it really get down to that low E even with the small drivers? (And if so, how do they do it?)

There aren't any PJB dealers near me so I haven't been able to hear one in person and I'm curious.

me experience is meh...

I have the headphone amp of theirs. For what I want it do it works well but to my ears its pretty bright sounding.

I had a PJB combo at one time, it may have been the suitcase but I honestly don't remember. It sounded ok, but again it just always sounded a little too bright to me.

 

[xsnrg27]

I guess I'll be one of the dissenting voices.

I owned (and gigged with for about 5 years) a Suitcase with a 4B extension cab (that's 8 x 5'' drivers in total) and it left me very underwhelmed. In theory the Suitcase with the extra cab delivered 350W at 4 ohms.

It sounded good, but it severely lacked in volume and low end.

With my funk band (vocals, guitar, bass, drums, keys, sax, trumpet and trombone), it was just enough to get by as a stage monitor, with the master volume almost all the way up. With a rock cover band (vocals, one or two guitars depending on the song, bass, drums), the volume would have to be completely dimed and it would still be a struggle to hear myself. Neither of these bands were insanely loud, but I'd always get drowned.

I sold it and changed for a class D head (Quilter Bass Block) with a single 8 ohm 1x12'' cab (AudioKinesis Changeling) and that setup is insanely louder than the PJB kit I had, and much lighter (more drivers = more weight). It also sounds just as good, if not better IMO (even for upright). The head I picked is quite "transparent" too, and it was much more affordable than PJB gear. Another thing I found out the hard way: Niche product = low demand = poor resale value.

I do think PJB's designs are elegant, craftmanship is top notch and that it sounds very good, but (again, IMO) it is poor value for the money. If you are an upright bassist always playing in a quiet trio or quartet, this could be great. When I initially bought it I mostly had upright in mind, and it did great with an acoustic piano and brushed drums but eventually my needs changed. If your main thing is rock or "guitar centric" music in general with a full drum kit, I'd stay away.

Just my 0.02$

Funny i was looking to down size from my current rig and played two PJB versus that exact Quilter at a local shop and had the exact same thoughts.

 

[Frank77]

Funny i was looking to down size from my current rig and played two PJB versus that exact Quilter at a local shop and had the exact same thoughts.

I only had to play a few notes through the Quilter to know it was "the one". It weighs nothing but sounds like it should weigh 40 or 50 lbs. I have the original 800 with the 2-knob EQ, and that's the best system I've ever used: Dialing my tone has never been so easy.

 

[msb]

Those Bergantino cabs are in a class of their own . I have a couple of HDN cabs I gig with .

 

[lomo]

The PJB stuff sounds good, but reliance on more tiny drivers means a higher ratio of metal and magnet to cone area....they tend to be less efficient (perceived loudness per watt of input) and pricey. I owned several PJB cabs and found them to be no better sounding, but heavier and less loud than other top builders like Mesa and Berg. I ditched the PJB cabs and still own a Double 4, which is great....use of tiny drivers makes sense if you want the smallest box possible, and my D4 fits in a carry on bag so is perfect for travel, but it doesn't pump much volume or low end. IME it takes 4 of his 5" drivers to get close (but no cigar) to a good 112 cab in terms of volume and low end punch. I love former TBer Kjung's assessment of PJB speakers: "A bad idea, beautifully executed". PJB fit and finish are top notch, and have been reliable IME.