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Phil Lesh Appreciation Society: Enter the Philzone...

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#961
To be fair, there were some good shows in the 80s. The 6/18/83 SPAC show was a transformative moment in my life in terms of bass playing. I'd been playing bass for three years and I was in need of some type of inspiration to push me toward a personal approach, and a few minutes into Morning Dew I realized that there was no need for boundaries in music. I've spent the next 30 years refining that principle and deriving joy from playing.

Some of the other early-mid '80s shows (Providence, Springfield, Worcester, Portland and the '84 and '85 SPAC shows) stand out as good moments in my memory, but in the context of everything else that's now available, there's just no desire to relive much of it. I suppose if I had actually seen some of the early 70s shows I'd feel even more strongly that way.
 
#962
joe vegas said:
decent songwriter, competent blues-rock player. unfortunately he was brought in just when they needed a whole lot more than that.
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As long as we're airing opinions here, I've gotta disagree about the songwriting. I didn't hear a single song that sounded compelling. A lot of it just sounded whiny to me. There was none of the celebrated ambiguity of GD song writing that allowed for the listener to take the songs to different places. Listening to him curse in Blow Away was kind of embarrassing. His cursing in Rooster was even worse. And let us not ever mention I Will Take You Home. I'd rather listen to From The Heart of Me, which is to say, not at all.

The only thing I found positive was his B3 playing.

Somewhere there's an interview with Jerry where he talks about how all of the GD guys were well versed in art, poetry, and other cultural aspects of the history of humanity. Brent grew up with no interest in reading, art, philosophy or any of the other things that fire the imagination. When I listen to the GD, I hear a conversation or three about all kinds of topics, from the visceral rock and roll to the highly cerebral and abstract. When I hear Brent play all I hear is "Look at me! Look at me!". It was especially aggravating in the longer jams because his contribution was always a bunch of knee-jerk rock and roll licks that limited possibilities rather than opening doors. He overplayed on top of the music, rather than living within it. He played at the audience, not with it. Sadly, I've played with all too many keyboard players who choose to emulate this. To my way of thinking, the music ceases to be a conversation and becomes something else a lot less interesting.

Music is a language and if you don't spend some time immersing yourself in the ways of the human condition or something, you have nothing to say.

After Keith left and especially after Brent left, I thought they should have done some time with no keys and made Jerry, Bob and Phil work on carrying the music again.
 
#963
As long as we're airing opinions here, I've gotta disagree about the songwriting. I didn't hear a single song that sounded compelling. A lot of it just sounded whiny to me. There was none of the celebrated ambiguity of GD song writing that allowed for the listener to take the songs to different places. Listening to him curse in Blow Away was kind of embarrassing. His cursing in Rooster was even worse. And let us not ever mention I Will Take You Home. I'd rather listen to From The Heart of Me, which is to say, not at all.

The only thing I found positive was his B3 playing.

Somewhere there's an interview with Jerry where he talks about how all of the GD guys were well versed in art, poetry, and other cultural aspects of the history of humanity. Brent grew up with no interest in reading, art, philosophy or any of the other things that fire the imagination. When I listen to the GD, I hear a conversation or three about all kinds of topics, from the visceral rock and roll to the highly cerebral and abstract. When I hear Brent play all I hear is "Look at me! Look at me!". It was especially aggravating in the longer jams because his contribution was always a bunch of knee-jerk rock and roll licks that limited possibilities rather than opening doors. He overplayed on top of the music, rather than living within it. He played at the audience, not with it. Sadly, I've played with all too many keyboard players who choose to emulate this. To my way of thinking, the music ceases to be a conversation and becomes something else a lot less interesting.

Music is a language and if you don't spend some time immersing yourself in the ways of the human condition or something, you have nothing to say.

After Keith left and especially after Brent left, I thought they should have done some time with no keys and made Jerry, Bob and Phil work on carrying the music again.

__________________WOW!!! I'm buying my insurance from you, Edwin!! Very cogent, intelligent insights, an excellent expression of my feelings exactly!
 
#966
DblG said:
Wow. I really liked Brent and a lot of the strong high harmonies he brought with him. Granted some of his keyboard sounds were 80's cheezy, and some of his songs were not suited for the Dead, but I can find just as much Brent era stuff to like as I do the Pig and Keith eras. I thought he brought a lot of energy to the band. And lets not forget along with Keith we had Donna, and there's probably just as many forgettable vocal moments as there were memorable ones with that era. (IMO of course!) :-)
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true dat about Donna. she could be great or annoying, it really depended on the show and on her ability to hear herself in the mix.

There were so many shady patches going on with and around these guys in the early-mid 80s, it's a wonder they got through it.
i think that Brent was a bit of a tragic figure in the sense that he came onboard at a weird time, was thrown in the deep end without a lot of centered-ness in himself.. and as Edwin cites, Phil went on at length in various interviews about Brent's lack of an intellectual core curiosity that could sustain him off tour (and on)... all the other guys had stuff going on that they could regroup & recharge behind, but Brent seemingly didn't, so he wrapped himself in the powders he knew best.
 
#967
I don't think that Jerry had the gas to do a guitar-only thing. Sure, he had his resurgent moments (mid-late '89 for example), but part of why they brought in Brent was to fill the voids, both vocally and instrumentally. I don't have quite the same level of dissatisfaction with Brent's input, but I think that Keith's input often gets vastly overlooked. Without Keith, '72, '73 and '74 are very different animals. His natural aptitude for jazz no doubt connected with Jerry's, Bobby's and Phil's love of Coltrane and helped allow the band to go where they likely would not have chosen to go in his absence.

So, once they moved away from the jazz approach to improv after the hiatus, Keith's input was more mechanical and less forward-thinking. By the late 70s, they needed some peanut butter to hold things together. In that respect, Brent's skill set was exactly what they needed, but the execution of said skill set resulted in some unfortunate excursions, if you will.
 
#968
Keith was an amazingly perfect fit from the moment he started playing with the band. The fact that they were in one of their most prolific periods as songwriters also certainly helped propel that era. Plus they were one rhythmic element down after Mickey had left the band. None of those elements were in effect when Brent came on board. He had done sessions with Weir whose solo projects post-Ace seemed motivated to make himself a rock star and the music was more generic. There was no doubt that Brent was a talented keyboard player but it took a good amount time for a lot of the long-time fans to accept Brent. For whatever reason his role seemed a bit forced at first. He definitely was a great B3 player but not much of a songwriter. I wasn't very fond of his voice but a lot of people are...
 
#969
DblG said:
And lets not forget along with Keith we had Donna, and there's probably just as many forgettable vocal moments as there were memorable ones with that era. (IMO of course!) :-)
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I wish I had a dollar for every Playing In The Band she's ruined for me. The early 70's was such a great era for the band..... It's so aggravating to have those great jams ruined by her out of tune screeching. Love Keith. Wish Donna had found another gig, bless her.
 
#973
wish i could say i spent the night in utah in a cave up in th' hills,
but instead i spent it revisiting Seastones and Rhythm Devils Play River Music.

This is Phil in beautiful ambient mode, in 2 radically different projects. ultra cool stuff.

also diggin' as much '74 Seatones live interludes from Dead shows as i can find.
what ballz to do a 1/2 hour electronics/feedback/synesthetic journey as a regular part of a night!
gawd bless the good ol' Grateful Dead.
 
#974
edwinhurwitz said:
When I hear Brent play all I hear is "Look at me! Look at me!". It was especially aggravating in the longer jams because his contribution was always a bunch of knee-jerk rock and roll licks that limited possibilities rather than opening doors. He overplayed on top of the music, rather than living within it. He played at the audience, not with it. Sadly, I've played with all too many keyboard players who choose to emulate this. To my way of thinking, the music ceases to be a conversation and becomes something else a lot less interesting.
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Sounds a lot like Rick Wakeman or Keith Emerson to my ears. I don't consider Emerson Lake and Palmer to be a band as much as three professionals who happen to be on the same stage at the same time. The band name makes them sound like lawyers sharing an office and a company name. I guess a lot of musicians took their cues from guys like this trying to play as fast as possible, their musical conversation being "wheeee!!!! Look at me!!! Here's some Bach!!! I'm cultured because I can play neo-classical runs really quickly!!!!".

The points you raise about Brent seem really fair.
 
#975
joe vegas said:
wish i could say i spent the night in utah in a cave up in th' hills,
but instead i spent it revisiting Seastones and Rhythm Devils Play River Music.

This is Phil is beautiful ambient mode, in 2 radically different projects. ultra cool stuff.

also diggin' as much '74 Seatones live interludes from Dead shows as i can find.
what ballz to do a 1/2 hour electronics/feedback/synesthetic journey as a regular part of a night!
gawd bless the good ol' Grateful Dead.
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I love that stuff!

I want to find some good beam recordings. Dafös has some on it (and some nice Bobby Vega), but I saw Mickey get much more intense live. I just wish I could remember which shows!

Say, have you ever heard the New York Biofeedback Quartet?
 
#976
joe vegas said:
also diggin' as much '74 Seatones live interludes from Dead shows as i can find.
what ballz to do a 1/2 hour electronics/feedback/synesthetic journey as a regular part of a night!
gawd bless the good ol' Grateful Dead.
Click to expand...

Was Phil processing his bass through a synthesizer during these performances? There's a photo online of Ned Lagin on stage seated in front of a modular synth.
 
#978
Bassmanmike1 said:
I have been revisiting David Crosby's first album as well as Graham Nash's. Phil does some nice stuff on both. His tone is like the studio FOTD. Same rig I'm guessing. I love all of the PERRO stuff.
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These are supposedly from those sessions.
 

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#979
Is that the bass Phil used on American Beauty? Killer tone.

Ed.: Now I figured out "FOTD." So, yes would be the answer. I deal with several varieties of acronym soup for work, so sometimes my brain doesn't click on genre #37 of acronyms. But I wonder if his parts were recorded from his rig or was there such thing as bass direct back in those days? Probably not; and the rig probably added some round grit to that tone captured on AB (ha!).
 
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