Philosophical question re: compression

[DLM]

I wanna first state that I have limited understanding of compression so I mainly ask this question out of ignorance. Here goes...

I've read that "a compressor is just an automatic volume control. At a basic level, it reacts to volume spikes from your music, and turns down the volume a bit as your levels go up, to keep things more even sounding." I understand that.

What I'm unsure of is this: is the use of compression a crutch for those of us who have not properly mastered our instruments?

(I'm thinking that perhaps my question lacks a basic understanding of compression because many top-players use compression in their live rigs.)

 

[Swift713]

I've wondered about this as well. I like the sound of compression as an effect and feel like I have no use for smooth or subtle compression. It is however very useful for recording. I'm sure that the likes of Wooten and Levin sound just fine without compression.

 

[JanusZarate]

What I'm unsure of is this: is the use of compression a crutch for those of us who have not properly mastered our instruments?

In general, I'd say... no. At least, not in the studio. Live playing is a different story.

There are things compression can do for music production in the studio that not even an experienced musician can do, such as taming volume spikes that can show up because of mistakes, changing from one playing style to another, or even playing aggressively. Not to mention, some effects pedals benefit greatly from the stability that compression provides.

It's almost unheard of to hear a professional audio recording that hadn't gone through some sort of compression. But in live performance, compression often isn't really necessary unless your style, gear, or band mix could benefit from it. And there's usually an easy way to work without compression when playing live. But in the studio... it's not so easy to get away with it.

And not all compressors are used the way studios typically use them - just consider something like an MXR Dyna Comp. The goal there is "squish", not transparent compression. In other words, compression can be used as an effect, too!

 

[bongomania]

It's a tool, like any other. It can be used to your advantage, or it can hinder you if mis-used.

I am fascinated by compressors, which is why I spend so much time and money on them... but I certainly don't think they are "right" for every person in every application. On the flip side, they can be such a useful tool, or such a cool effect, that anyone who thinks of compression as "only a crutch for players with poor technique" may be seriously missing out on something good.

 

[BassyBill]

No, it's not a crutch. But it's not necessary for everyone or all the time.

It can be particularly useful when slapping and - more especially - popping or "snapping". Sometimes the signal spikes produced by this can cause clipping when you've got your rig set to whatever your normal playing volume is. So you're playing fingerstyle, gain adjusted accordingly and then you decide to SNAP on that G string. At that point, compression is your friend. Just as an example.

But like I said, it's not like you can't manage without it and many people do (including myself a lot of the time).

FWIW, I use an EBS Multicomp on lots of gigs and one of the things I like about it most is the fact that is does the job very unobtrusively.

 

[niftydog]

I'm sure that the likes of Wooten and Levin sound just fine without compression.

I'm sure they do, but even so I bet Tony never goes far without at least one compressor in his rig!

This is a question of the appropriate application of compression. There's two general approaches, one is utilitarian, one is artistic. But, I don't think that it can really be used effectively to cover for poor technique. You can pick that a mile away, and often without even having to hear it! People might try to use it in that way, but I think they're kidding themselves.

I perceive a limitation with the general description that the OP quoted that leads to (I believe) a misconception about compressors. Namely, the maximum time "range" of a typical compressor is at most a second or two, maybe three - and the maximum effective perceived volume "recovery" is only a few dB before it starts to sound like a broken artificial lung! Neither of these parameters would really help you compensate for poor technique from bar to bar.

I guess what I'm saying is, to describe a compressor as an automatic gain control gives the impression that it's more capable than it actually is. It really is intended only to deal with transients, so it's there, and then it's gone before you can say boo.

 

[mikeboth]

I practice and rehearse without a compressor, but use gentle compression (1:3 or something) to smooth things out a bit when performing live. For some songs (slower ballads, for example) I'll switch the compressor off to increase dynamic range.
I imagine if my technique was 100% perfect I wouldn't need one.

 

[PunkerTrav]

I use mine almost exclusively to smooth out my muffs. I hardly ever have the compressor engaged solo.

 

[bongomania]

I perceive a limitation with the general description that the OP quoted that leads to (I believe) a misconception about compressors. Namely, the maximum time "range" of a typical compressor is at most a second or two, maybe three - and the maximum effective perceived volume "recovery" is only a few dB before it starts to sound like a broken artificial lung! Neither of these parameters would really help you compensate for poor technique from bar to bar.

I guess what I'm saying is, to describe a compressor as an automatic gain control gives the impression that it's more capable than it actually is. It really is intended only to deal with transients, so it's there, and then it's gone before you can say boo.

Full disclosure: he was quoting my FAQ.
But even if he wasn't, I'd still disagree with you Nifty. Compressors are in fact labeled "automatic gain controls" because they really are. That is exactly what they do; any other quality they may have is incidental to the electronic design of a given model. The business you describe about a certain number of dB or a certain number of seconds really baffles me, I'm not sure where you are coming from with that. Compressors (in general principle) can react any amount of time from "instantaneously" to "several seconds"; and may have a range of control from "barely any" to "infinity". Therefore to say they are only intended to deal with transients is to take a very narrow view of their abilities. I wonder if you were just trying to say that's the "right way" to use them in your opinion?

 

[niftydog]

Well, to my engineers mind, an automatic gain control responds to average levels measured over a long time period - in many cases up to hours or even days. AGCs sit through hours of boring testimony before passing judgement, compressors just decide who's to blame and punch them in the nose!

I'm not after a debate about semantics, I agree that compressors are AGCs, but does anybody else hesitate at the deli when faced with both sliced AND shaved salami? It's like the whole compressor/limiter thing. Where do you draw the line? Depends on who you ask and which way the wind is blowing. Nor was I criticising your FAQ (I see the same laymen's description absolutely everywhere) but just pointing out what I saw as a potential misunderstanding of compressor behaviour. The impression might have been given that a compressor is more discerning and considerate than what it really is!

Compressors (in general principle) can react any amount of time from "instantaneously" to "several seconds"; and may have a range of control from "barely any" to "infinity".

It's not unusual to have the related time parameters in a "classic" AGC set for several minutes or hours, and in some cases (probably not audio) the gain range my be tens of dB. (A compressor can react for eternity, but only when it's continually fed with transients. An AGC however takes more convincing before it will relax.)

Would you say that a compressor can compensate for poor technique, Bongo? How effectively? When the OP said "crutch" I pictured someone relying heavily on his compressor to; even out his dud notes, compensate for slapping volume, keep his overall level in "the zone" all night long, prevent the bass from booming, make sure his fly is done up and make a cup of tea for him at the end of the night! Sounds ridiculous I know, but the point being I think some people might be under the impression that a compressor is doing more for them that what it actually is.

To get the most out of it you've gotta know what you're trying to achieve and how capable the device is. I'm sure you'd agree with that!

 

[Swift713]

I've heard a number of people on TB say that they practice without their compressor but perform with it. This sounds like the crutch approach which confuses me. For me it's an effect, like a clean overdrive sort of. The studio, transient control, application isn't something I've had much use for so far.

 

[Crabby]

I use compression to assist in making my finger taps and harmonics jump out a little better in the mix and to keep the deep low notes from getting out of control and farting out my speakers at high volume.

It is more of a tool in that sense. I, of course can hear the difference when my compressor is kicked in but the effect is very subtle. Could I get along without it? Of course, but I really like the "effect" it has on my tone and generally use some compression all the time.

It takes some ear training and practice to figure out what a compressor can and cannot do for you. I had a few different types before I picked up a very simple Aphex Punch Factory.

I love this pedal for what it adds to my tone and for what it doesn't add. Most listeners would likely not even hear the difference when the pedal is on or off. Mine stays on all the time and I sure notice if its turned off.

 

[DLM]

Thanks all for a great discussion so far. I'm learning a lot as I read and re-read everyone's responses.

That said, words can only go so far. Can someone indulge me and provide identical sound clips with pre- and post-compression?

 

[geoffkhan]

I don't think it's a crutch at all... bear in mind that compressor only brings things out, not taking away like a gate would do (I would definitely consider practicing with a gate to be a crutch).

 

[bongomania]

AGCs sit through hours of boring testimony before passing judgement, compressors just decide who's to blame and punch them in the nose!

I love your metaphor, but honestly in the audio world, specifically processors that handle transients of very short duration, there are many many devices which have "AGC" in the name, or stamped on the faceplate, or written into the manufacturer's ad copy. "AGC" is a term not in any way limited to the long-duration application with which you are familiar.

The impression might have been given that a compressor is more discerning and considerate than what it really is!

That's certainly possible. I am totally open to suggestions if you can think of a way to re-word it which will disabuse people of that notion while still staying in the realm of simple layman's terms.

Would you say that a compressor can compensate for poor technique, Bongo? How effectively?

Yes, and surprisingly well under certain circumstances! For example, my Fender ADPV has a terribly overpowering low B string (or it did, before the new strings and setup it is now getting). One of my tests of compressors lately has been how well they could correct for that single string, almost twice as "loud" as the others, in an extreme end of the frequency range, with no adjustment of my playing technique. Yes, some compressors can do that job, meaning if I wanted to I could skate by indefinitely (at least in a "rock" context) without ever learning how to improve my B string technique. Similarly, I have listened to a variety of slap bass recordings, and I believe I can tell when heavy compression is used to rein in peaks, versus technique to do so; that's not to say the heavily compressed ones sucked at all, but rather that a slapper can skate by without learning how to avoid spikes up and down the neck with both slaps and pops.

To get the most out of it you've gotta know what you're trying to achieve and how capable the device is. I'm sure you'd agree with that!

Certainly!

 

[lowstar]

i think it is very important to divide between playing live and in the studio, and for playing live, to divide between backline and FOH. compression is very important for recording and integrating the sound into the FOH, but as for your backline...if you leave the compression on all the time like some people do and suggest, you seriously rob yourself of an important means of artistic expression called dynamics.

compressor only brings things out, not taking away

it can take away as well...if you play softly and then wanna really dig in on some notes that are supposed to jump out of the speakers, they might not jump out just as fiercely.

cheers,
lowstar

 

[niftydog]

"AGC" is a term not in any way limited to the long-duration application with which you are familiar.

Well I guess that's the semantics coming into play. Within the overall category of AGCs you've got compressors, limiters, levellers etc. The specific names, to my mind, suggest specific applications. While compressors are used to fill many roles, it's sometimes preferable to use the right type of AGC!

Jimmy is using the crutch because he has a slightly sore big toe, but that same crutch won't help Billy, a multiple amputee wearing a slippery shoe! Are people forming the impression that a single compressor in the chain will fix all their problems? We often see descriptions of compressors stating that they can fix X, Y or Z, but is it clear that they can't fix X, Y and Z all at the same time?



Case in point: I used to work in a broadcasting environment - we had a room (well, a chamber) with over 200 microphones and dozens of sound reinforcement speakers. The principles are the same as what is often discussed around here - taming transients, evening out the volume in response to changes in SPL at the microphone (akin to technique flaws), as well as governing the overall mix so that the audio peaks where at an agreed standard (akin to getting the bands mix right). All the while, the people (and the mood) in the chamber fluctuated. Sometimes there'd be an uneasy quiet in the room, until somebody insults somebody else's mother and then it's bedlam.

Oh yeah, the point!

The audio system we installed had oodles and oodles of various types of AGCs. Some on individual mic channels, some on groups, some over the main outputs. Some dedicated to sound reinforcement and other dedicated to improving the quality (audibility) of the broadcast. Still more protecting loudspeakers!

Then, the second the news agencies got a hold of the signal, guess what they do? Add compression & set the limiter!

 

[assboglin]

I actually personally hate compressors. Not that I don't own any, I play like a maniac so I have tried compressors to help keep me from blowing horns, for one thing. I didn't like using a compressor, so I'm done with horns too, haha.

But for a lot of people a compressor is an important part of their tone. At the worst you'll have kids who want a compressor just to have something to step on without a sense of whether they really need it or not, but I don't think a compressor is ever a crutch. If you can't play right, no box on this earth is going to make you sound good to a discerning ear.

 

[squarewave]

I recently took delivery of a bass with a poor set-up. The pickup was set too low on the E-string side. As an experiment, I used a Trace Elliot Dual-Band compressor to see if the setup problem could be "fixed" with compression (and make-up gain). The results were surprisingly good. The compressor evened out the string volume very well. I guess that it was a crutch in that situation. Of course, I will set the bass up properly soon, but it was an intetresting experiment demonstrating the effectiveness of compression used to alleviate problems (setup or technique would be similar).

Of course, my technique needs no crutch

 

[The BurgerMeister]

I recently took delivery of a bass with a poor set-up. The pickup was set too low on the E-string side. As an experiment, I used a Trace Elliot Dual-Band compressor to see if the setup problem could be "fixed" with compression (and make-up gain). The results were surprisingly good. The compressor evened out the string volume very well. I guess that it was a crutch in that situation. Of course, I will set the bass up properly soon, but it was an intetresting experiment demonstrating the effectiveness of compression used to alleviate problems (setup or technique would be similar).

that is why i started using compression. the G on my Sterling is just a little quieter than the other strings. i've lowered the pickup on the E side and raised it on the G side, which helps... but it's still not perfect. i use just enough compression to even out the string volume on the Sterling.

more of a tool than a crutch, i think. i don't need to use compression with my other basses.
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