Phonic Powerpod PA packages

[DWBass]

It's attitudes like this that get the label 'gear snobs'. I know everybody's not a gear snob, but it would be better served to try and help people out on a limited budget. Not everybody has money to buy top of the line music equipment. Maybe instead of ridiculing people you could approach it this way: "I personally would never buy any system except such and such, but if you are on a fixed budget and can only spend such and such then this is the brands I would choose and why I would choose them, if I were put in that position"

+1

I'm currently using a Kustom 8 channel 400w (200w x 200w) system. 2 mains, 2 monitors which I found for damn near brand new (including 2 speaker stands, speaker cables, 2 mics and mic cables) in my local Craigslist for $375! I've used it to play for aprox. 300+ in clubs. Had vocals and all instruments (drums sub mixer, bass pretty low in the mix). Admittedly, I could use a powered sub and a couple added powered monitors and it's a pretty decent cheap PA. At some point, I will upgrade to a powered mixer with more power. I'm searching for a used Mackie 808s. My old band in NY used one in clubs all over NYC and the Tri-State area with great effect!

 

[otis_thick]

The following is a company history of Phonic and its owner.
Link Removed

Note, Phonic is/was one of Yamaha manufactuers. As far as Firewire mixers ALL firewire interfaces are by TC electronics No one sets out to make a crappy product. It is not built like a tank treat it accordingly. I work for NPR and I use a Phonic firewire mixer for all remote multitrack recordings. In the field I use the Behringer B-2 pro and in the studio I use Neumann TLM-49 that's a 1000% price difference

I recorded this for NPR in a hotel setting at table she is on a B-2 pro He is on a Neumann U87 ($3,000.00) in DC studio. The mics only needed level matching.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4576596

Do you hear in this case the almost 3000% price difference?
If it says its a 800w mixer assume 800w momentary peak don't try to run it 800RMS or its going to fail

Places like Sweetwater started selling the Behringers and Phonics when they first came out and sold a ton....But if I sell a Yamaha at $1000.00 with a 10% commision I make $100.00 per sale....whereas If I sell a $100 Phonic at 10% I only make $10.00 oops go back to do you hear 3000% price difference...so they stop carrying that brand...but NOW you are seeing companys like Royer (ribbon mics) start Mojave (mics) from same Chinese source as Behringer Samson and Nady almost all of the same guts but ARE assembled by the same people on the same machines but sold at higher price piont....you expect more for the money. sorry for the rant but the broad stroke comments get to me

 

[phsycobass]

Hey,

I thought I'd chime in, because I have been doing sound for a lot longer than I've been playing bass. When you are looking at a package like the one phonic offers, you have to understand that this is very entry-level stuff. It will work best for low-medium volume rehearsals for vocals only or coffee shop style acoustic gigs. For a band playing loud rock/metal music, the requirements change drastically. I’m not saying that it can’t work for your application, but I would strongly recommend not going in this direction based on your style of music and club-gig aspirations. Another thing to understand is wattage will not always give you an accurate picture of what volume you can expect for a rig. Similarly too bass amps, a 100 watt guitar amp will far out power a 100 watt pa system. Wattage specs are often quoted in peak rating (for marketing reasons) which is double the real continuous output of the amplifier. Another thing that you may not have considered is whether or not you will need monitors (I will work under the assumption that you won’t need them). I am not a gear snob, just a realist who wants to get you the best result for the minimum $. Here is what I would suggest for you-

Either:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-EMX512SCS115V-PA-Package?sku=630193
(The S115V speakers that come with this one are much better than the JRX speaker in the slightly cheaper package, although the JRX are a step above phonic)

or 2 of these

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...LIVE-B212A-Active-2Way-Loudspeaker?sku=600735

and this (or similar)
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-10INPUT-STEREO-MIXER?sku=630138

I know the second option includes behringer speakers, but these are one of the few behringer products that seem to be reliable, sound good and get pretty darn loud. The are an active speaker with their own amps built in (no need for a POWERED mixer) These basic parts only put you $100 over budget, just factor in a couple mics and cables (maybe speaker stands).

I hope I was some help, pm me if you want any further advice. (sorry for the long post)

 

[Barisaxman]

+1

I'm currently using a Kustom 8 channel 400w (200w x 200w) system. 2 mains, 2 monitors which I found for damn near brand new (including 2 speaker stands, speaker cables, 2 mics and mic cables) in my local Craigslist for $375! I've used it to play for aprox. 300+ in clubs. Had vocals and all instruments (drums sub mixer, bass pretty low in the mix). Admittedly, I could use a powered sub and a couple added powered monitors and it's a pretty decent cheap PA. At some point, I will upgrade to a powered mixer with more power. I'm searching for a used Mackie 808s. My old band in NY used one in clubs all over NYC and the Tri-State area with great effect!

While it may work for you, you're not going to sound as good through that gear as you would through proper (at least MI level) gear. Cheap gear is cheap for a reason...it's inefficient, unreliable, and just doesn't sound that good. Your $375 would have been much better spent looks for some used Peavey gear that at least sounds decent. You may support the notion that anyone talking down your gear is nothing but a gear snob...but the fact is that anybody who hangs around live sound forums for any period of time sees this same scenario over and over: newbie has no money, goes out and buys a shiny new phonic, nady, kustome, etc. PA....cranks the hell out of it to keep up with their metal band, then comes back and complains why they keep blowing drivers and have huge feedback issues without getting any volume. :scowl:

Cheap gear is designed only with the notion of hitting a price point. Cheap gear is easily comparable to cheap bands....they both make noise, but they don't sound good doing it and leave the customers wishing for something better.

 

[phatbass]

im looking into buying a phonic powerpod 780-s715 PA Package, but before i make a final decision i want to know do any of you have experiences with phonic PA systems? if so do you recommend i make the purchase? it comes with a complete set up and is $399 on musiciansfriend and has 600 watts, but even with all these specifications i still want good quality. so if any of you have knowledge on phonic PA system please tell me based on your experiences if making a the purchase would be a wise move.

would pyle, samson or pmx be good brands as well? and using a different brand speaker such as yamaha? idk a whole lot bout PAs and my budget is $500 even if i have to get sumthin used i will... just need more insight now that phonic may not be reliable quality...

I had a Phonic PA head similar to this, but an older model. Stereo power amps, etc. Never had any trouble in the 5 or so years I had it.

It was fine bang for the buck. Basically just a vocal PA, but occasionally with just a touch of kick (note: I said a touch of kick, not the John Bonham Bass Drum from hell thunder).

It did the job it was designed to do fine i.e. Vocal reinforcement at not-hell-loud gigs. If it suits your gigs, it'll do fine. If you need to mic up a band, you'll be disappointed.

One hint; don't bother with the included mics - get yourself decent vocal mics as they make a world of difference, especially at this end of the PA market.

 

[otis_thick]

Hey,

I am not a gear snob, just a realist who wants to get you the best result for the minimum $. Here is what I would suggest for you-

Either:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-EMX512SCS115V-PA-Package?sku=630193
(The S115V speakers that come with this one are much better than the JRX speaker in the slightly cheaper package, although the JRX are a step above phonic)

or 2 of these

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...LIVE-B212A-Active-2Way-Loudspeaker?sku=600735

and this (or similar)
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-10INPUT-STEREO-MIXER?sku=630138

I know the second option includes behringer speakers, but these are one of the few behringer products that seem to be reliable, sound good and get pretty darn loud. The are an active speaker with their own amps built in (no need for a POWERED mixer) These basic parts only put you $100 over budget, just factor in a couple mics and cables (maybe speaker stands).

I hope I was some help, pm me if you want any further advice. (sorry for the long post)

This IS an example of my earlier post....The Yamaha MG and EMX powered series were manufactured by Phonic

 

[DWBass]

While it may work for you, you're not going to sound as good through that gear as you would through proper (at least MI level) gear. Cheap gear is cheap for a reason...it's inefficient, unreliable, and just doesn't sound that good. Your $375 would have been much better spent looks for some used Peavey gear that at least sounds decent. You may support the notion that anyone talking down your gear is nothing but a gear snob...but the fact is that anybody who hangs around live sound forums for any period of time sees this same scenario over and over: newbie has no money, goes out and buys a shiny new phonic, nady, kustom, etc. PA....cranks the hell out of it to keep up with their metal band, then comes back and complains why they keep blowing drivers and have huge feedback issues without getting any volume. :scowl:

Cheap gear is designed only with the notion of hitting a price point. Cheap gear is easily comparable to cheap bands....they both make noise, but they don't sound good doing it and leave the customers wishing for something better.

Fortunately, I don't play in a loud metal band. I play in a R&B/Jazz band. We don't get LOUD at all and everything is balanced nicely. In my opinion, my $375 was well spent. Again though, I do plan to upgrade to a better system but this was all we could afford at the time and it has paid for itself! I do agree that a PA like this will not work with a loud band. Maybe vocals only!

 

[modulusman]

The following is a company history of Phonic and its owner.
Link Removed

Note, Phonic is/was one of Yamaha manufactuers. As far as Firewire mixers ALL firewire interfaces are by TC electronics No one sets out to make a crappy product. It is not built like a tank treat it accordingly. I work for NPR and I use a Phonic firewire mixer for all remote multitrack recordings. In the field I use the Behringer B-2 pro and in the studio I use Neumann TLM-49 that's a 1000% price difference

I recorded this for NPR in a hotel setting at table she is on a B-2 pro He is on a Neumann U87 ($3,000.00) in DC studio. The mics only needed level matching.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4576596

Do you hear in this case the almost 3000% price difference?
If it says its a 800w mixer assume 800w momentary peak don't try to run it 800RMS or its going to fail

Places like Sweetwater started selling the Behringers and Phonics when they first came out and sold a ton....But if I sell a Yamaha at $1000.00 with a 10% commision I make $100.00 per sale....whereas If I sell a $100 Phonic at 10% I only make $10.00 oops go back to do you hear 3000% price difference...so they stop carrying that brand...but NOW you are seeing companys like Royer (ribbon mics) start Mojave (mics) from same Chinese source as Behringer Samson and Nady almost all of the same guts but ARE assembled by the same people on the same machines but sold at higher price piont....you expect more for the money. sorry for the rant but the broad stroke comments get to me

Here is some more discussion about Phonic. Notice in Post #26 Agedhorse says about Phonic making yamaha products. Link Removed

 

[modulusman]

+1

I'm currently using a Kustom 8 channel 400w (200w x 200w) system. 2 mains, 2 monitors which I found for damn near brand new (including 2 speaker stands, speaker cables, 2 mics and mic cables) in my local Craigslist for $375! I've used it to play for aprox. 300+ in clubs. Had vocals and all instruments (drums sub mixer, bass pretty low in the mix). Admittedly, I could use a powered sub and a couple added powered monitors and it's a pretty decent cheap PA. At some point, I will upgrade to a powered mixer with more power. I'm searching for a used Mackie 808s. My old band in NY used one in clubs all over NYC and the Tri-State area with great effect!

So are you playing to 50 people in clubs that can hold 300 people or are you playing to 300 people? For an audience of 300 people my band would be using an active 5000 watt 8 box system that costs 40 times what yours did.

 

[DWBass]

So are you playing to 50 people in clubs that can hold 300 people or are you playing to 300 people? For an audience of 300 people my band would be using an active 5000 watt 8 box system that costs 40 times what yours did.

I've used it to play for aprox. 300 or so folks at an outdoor gig. I've also used it at several bar venues. Like I said, my band does not require an extremely LOUD system and we don't play very loud at all. Not saying I didn't feel it was lacking though. The monitors were very very weak (what do want out of 10" speakers??) and of course extended bass response was severely lacking! The mains held up fine though. I did feel it's weaknesses. We used what we had or it was nothing at all. I do plan to upgrade as I said previously! Over the years, I've used many different systems available to me. I don't think 5000w is needed unless you're doing stadiums or pro venues which should have systems already available, IMHO! A decent 12-16 channel 800WATTx2 system with powered subs and monitors will suffice...at least for me it will. If I need more, most likely the gig is a well paying one and we can hire an affordable sound guy (for which I know many in my neighborhood)

 

[Barisaxman]

I've used it to play for aprox. 300 or so folks at an outdoor gig. I've also used it at several bar venues. Like I said, my band does not require an extremely LOUD system and we don't play very loud at all. Not saying I didn't feel it was lacking though. The monitors were very very weak (what do want out of 10" speakers??) and of course extended bass response was severely lacking! The mains held up fine though. I did feel it's weaknesses. We used what we had or it was nothing at all. I do plan to upgrade as I said previously! Over the years, I've used many different systems available to me. I don't think 5000w is needed unless you're doing stadiums or pro venues which should have systems already available, IMHO! A decent 12-16 channel 800WATTx2 system with powered subs and monitors will suffice...at least for me it will. If I need more, most likely the gig is a well paying one and we can hire an affordable sound guy (for which I know many in my neighborhood)

At least you have realistic expectations of what your gear can and can't do. That's one attribute that most people lack when it comes to making PA decisions. They figure if a 100w guitar amp is loud, a 600watt PA (usually peak marketing numbers anyway) should be rockin enough to mic up their metal/hard rock band. Then they log into their favorite live sound or bass forum and complain about their gear, when the problem was the operator and unrealistic expectations.

 

[modulusman]

I've used it to play for aprox. 300 or so folks at an outdoor gig. I've also used it at several bar venues. Like I said, my band does not require an extremely LOUD system and we don't play very loud at all. Not saying I didn't feel it was lacking though. The monitors were very very weak (what do want out of 10" speakers??) and of course extended bass response was severely lacking! The mains held up fine though. I did feel it's weaknesses. We used what we had or it was nothing at all. I do plan to upgrade as I said previously! Over the years, I've used many different systems available to me. I don't think 5000w is needed unless you're doing stadiums or pro venues which should have systems already available, IMHO! A decent 12-16 channel 800WATTx2 system with powered subs and monitors will suffice...at least for me it will. If I need more, most likely the gig is a well paying one and we can hire an affordable sound guy (for which I know many in my neighborhood)

I agree that most BAR bands could get by with a 12-16 channel set-up you described. As far as stadium you would need more than 5,000 watts.[more like 50,000 watts] My band can expand our 5000 watt system by another 7000 watts and even then when we play for more than 500 we run out of gas and usually hire a sound company. We are a country/rock band and not extremely loud either.

 

[DWBass]

I agree that most BAR bands could get by with a 12-16 channel set-up you described. As far as stadium you would need more than 5,000 watts.[more like 50,000 watts] My band can expand our 5000 watt system by another 7000 watts and even then when we play for more than 500 we run out of gas and usually hire a sound company. We are a country/rock band and not extremely loud either.

Hmmmm......I dunno! If 12,000 watts isn't enough for 500 people, something is wrong! I was in a band a few years ago and we had 2 2x15 subs, 2 2x15 mains, 4 monitors and 2k watts for the mains, 2k for the subs and 1k for the monitors (12's and 15's) and we had volume to spare for any gig including outdoors down at the Virginia Beach oceanfront open air stage! We played for way more than 500 people! Also played for many Filipino and Korean affairs where there were way more than 500 attendees and had way more power than needed!

 

[modulusman]

Hmmmm......I dunno! If 12,000 watts isn't enough for 500 people, something is wrong! I was in a band a few years ago and we had 2 2x15 subs, 2 2x15 mains, 4 monitors and 2k watts for the mains, 2k for the subs and 1k for the monitors (12's and 15's) and we had volume to spare for any gig including outdoors down at the Virginia Beach oceanfront open air stage! We played for way more than 500 people! Also played for many Filipino and Korean affairs where there were way more than 500 attendees and had way more power than needed!

You might have had more than 500 people in your audience but I bet alot of them were getting less than great sound. The number of speakers makes a difference in coverage and the amount of power. To be twice as loud you need 10x power.

 

[otis_thick]

Here is some more discussion about Phonic. Notice in Post #26 Agedhorse says about Phonic making yamaha products. Link Removed

It was suggested he get a Yamaha EMX instead of the Phonic....my point was Phonic made EMX for Yamaha.
When shopping if you can test it in person do as much research as you can. Years ago Peavey had the same negative rep as Behringer but things improved

as far as the HC thread mentioning Samsung and Sony, my Samsung has a Trinitron tube????

 

[Steelers Fan]

Years ago Peavey had the same negative rep as Behringer but things improved

With that philosophy, my Behringer gear should be "boutique"-level in a few years...

 

[otis_thick]

With that philosophy, my Behringer gear should be "boutique"-level in a few years...

Long ago before there was the internet Peavey a very bad rep due to poor quality control. It appears now, you really are paying for the name with some so called high end gear for example Link Removed and this Invalid Link Removed